It’s Very Much Something Hannibal Would Do - Ashley and Joel discuss “…After the Phantoms of Your Former Self” Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E02 - AC014
Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to the Articulate Cove. We are your hosts.
Ashley: Ashley Wright Ihler.
Joel: Joel Sharpton here, and we are the Articulate Cove. And we are back for episode two faster than we originally assumed, faster than you might have imagined. Perhaps faster than you yourself are watching this. Let's speak off the top here, Ashley, to a discussion we had in the Facebook group, do we release these episodes as closely as we can with the release of the episodes themselves on AMC Plus? Or do we try to tie our releases back to the cable release? And once you and I realized, for sure, we were gonna be getting continuously episodes week to week ahead of the cable schedule. First and foremost, you and I wanted to talk about these episodes individually. Like, we we watched episode one and discussed it before we watched episode two and we wanna do that week to week. So if we're gonna separate our own discussions, just for ease of viewing and ease of recording. I think it's gonna be better for us to roll with the AMC Plus schedule since that's what you and I were doing. We took it to the group, It seems like most people in the group, you know, that are commenting regularly anyway. They seem to be AMC plus users too. The few cable users were like, hey, I know I'm gonna be running behind on the series. That means I'll be running behind on the podcast. No worries. No harm, no foul. So just be aware of that. If you're a cable watcher, be aware of that in the Facebook group, especially watch the spoiler threads. We'll we'll title those at the top. Spoiler thread for episode two discussion, you know, whatever. And just don't don't read ahead.
Ashley: Yeah. Stay out of those spoiler chats because they will be spoiler y. And,
Joel: of course, I mean, if you're if you're a book reader before, like, it's not like it's not really spoiling, but at the same time, I do understand because you and I are trying to do it ourselves. You want this this version of the tail to unfold as the creators wanted it to. Right?
Ashley: Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm really it's so good you guys. Something I'm really excited about is I'm as we know, there was a lot of, like, a lot of fans were kinda concerned about how this is gonna be. And it's just really great to go to, like, go into Facebook and get into, like, the the the pages that I follow and the and the fan groups that I'm in and people really seem to be enjoying this. For the most part, I mean, obviously, there are some there are some definitely people that are not on board yet, but I think a lot of us are having a really good time with
Joel: Yeah. I I I think over well, and maybe it's just about how I've managed my own social media feeds. I don't know. But I am I am seeing overwhelming love for it. Every now and again, I I'll see a small nitpick. But generally, it's it's a nitpick brought about from someone who loves a particular aspect of the novels or one particular novel even so that's that's almost understandable. You and I are gonna have those things. As a matter of fact, one of them is gonna come up in this episode, Ashley. So before we get to that and our spoiler discussion in case you haven't watched episode two after the phantoms of your former self. Let's do spoiler free for a second. What did you think of the episode?
Ashley: Of course, I I've watched it three times you guys already did today because I was making a rue, making some gumbo, and that takes some time. So I did my rewatches while I was cooking and I I freaking love it. It was such a cool little slice of time in in in this world and in their relationship while Louie is a fledgling. And it's a great ride. I had a blast. I had a great time. There was a lot more humor in this episode. Which was kind of fun and we get to see a little bit more of L'Estat's not so great side. So, yeah, I had a blast. I I had a great time watching it.
Joel: I did too. I also I feel like I get a sense now of the pacing of the series, perhaps. You can you can begin to see we know it's gonna be seven episodes this season, and we know where we are in the tail you and I have already speculated about where we're gonna end up by the end of season one. I I get a sense of where they're going as far as like how they're laying this out for us. In particular, with the combination of the modern day story that is going on sort of the b plot with Daniel and Louis in this compound in Dubai versus the classical story of interview of the Vampire, which is the developing tale of Louis as he becomes an and grows as a vampire. It's I think they did a great job, honestly, of telling the two stories tonight. And again, I I get a sense of how this is gonna go week to week as we move forward, and I'm super excited about it. So let's let's dive into it. This is
Ashley: a wild ass interview. This is a wild ass
Joel: interview. Oh, man. It's happening. Alright. This episode was directed again by Alan Taylor, just as the pilot episode was this one was written however by Jonathan, Cinecierowicz, and Dave Harris. Those are our writers for this one. I wanna I wanna dive right in the top with my nitpick. So, I mean, literally the first thing that I wrote. It's it's within the first, I think, three minutes of the episode. Louis and L'Estat speak to each other mentally. Even though Louis is now turned, it's one sentence and I was so angry. I said, UGG, It's my first disappointment of the series. I can't believe they let me down. We literally talked about this last week.
Joel: And then reaction. And then I said, wait. Because L'Estat further explains and says they can't read each other's minds. And yet in the in the opening scene as he takes Louis for that first hunt, Louie is eyeing the sailor while Lestat is trying to to turn him towards the salesman and The first time L'Estat does it out loud. He he puts a hand on Louis and addresses the salesman directly. The second time though, he says in Louis head, it seems in the show anyway. He says you're gonna scare him away, Monomy. And I don't know I don't know what they're doing here other than just, like, maybe they're confused, you know, and somebody missed it, I guess. I don't know. I suppose I
Ashley: You're speaking, like, using that
Joel: A straight telepathic message when you're sitting beside each other different somehow than
Ashley: reading your mind than actually going back to and that's kind of
Joel: funny. I may maybe I but it I it I do wonder because the thing that you and I were really concerned about and and think it matters to the overall tale of this is that moment when you're in need and you scream out to the rest of the vampires, which Louis refers to, you know, hearing the the calls or the the squabbles, the the plotting of all of these other vampires around the world, he can hear it. And yet, can he hear L'Estat's cry for help if he needs him? Or is it only when they're right there in the present? I I don't know. I mean, I suppose, it's probably not gonna be addressed and maybe this is one of those things, like you said last week about, you know, the amount of blood or the levitating. It's a nitpick. It's it's television. They're trying to to show this vampiric power to people who haven't read literally thousands of pages of Anne's writing on the subject. So I don't know. I guess I'll just take it, but I would like to hear Raul and Jones talk about it honestly because I wanna know what the deal was here.
Ashley: I'm very interested to see if if they if they give any sort of explanation about that because I had the same reaction. I literally was like, like, I said it out loud. I was like, oh, no. Oh,
Ashley: But I then I felt I don't know.
Joel: I am glad that Lrastat as Lrastat explained it, I I think the the central core of what you and I were talking about in last episode remains in this universe and will be there moving forward, in particular, the divide between Louis and L'Estat. Can grow because they cannot read each other's minds. They cannot understand each other innately. They have to use their words as as the relation chip counselors says, and they have to explain what what each of them wants and needs from one another. And so that that open wound that we think you know, might eventually fester. That that all can happen still. But boy, like, why why make it complicated or confusing for anyone? It's just just didn't mean you the list that could have spoken out loud.
Ashley: It's literally the one thing that I was like, I'm gonna be both of us were like, I'm gonna be really annoyed. If they f this up and then and there there it was within, like, yeah, you're right within the first, you know, ten minutes of the episode. But but hopefully, it will be explained and I can live with it in my own brain. I can not let it, especially since it was you know, inverted commas, explained away. You know, I don't know. We'll see.
Joel: I will say they follow this up with just an excellent little sequence of events. Louis and Lestat's first real fight as a as a, you know, as a couple.
Ashley: Oh my gosh.
Joel: It's so perfect. It's so perfect. You know, the Loustache Louie's line about there are a lot of things different in America. Oh, this again. We're gonna go over this. It's clear that they've had these sorts of, you know, head butting incidents already. And yet, this is the first time that we're seeing it. But it plays out so true to life. And also, true to their characters. If you're in a long term committed relationship, it doesn't matter how infatuated you are with the person or how much you idolize them, adore them. The way that they
Joel: brush their teeth and leave the toothpaste in the sink, or the way they put the toilet paper roll roll on backwards or, you know, all the little things that happen
Joel: this is the stuff that fights her about when you're when you're in a long term relationship. And so I love that that's already happening for the two of them. And again, it's very, very true to who they are in in the books.
Ashley: A hundred percent.
Joel: There was a great line there I thought too. And an explanation sort of of something we discussed in last episode as Lastat is stuffing the body into the furnace. He says two parish priests disappear. No one minds. Probably kid fiddlers. First of all, have you ever heard the phrase kid fiddler?
Ashley: I think I've heard a a didler, but not a fiddle.
Joel: I had two. I'd not I had never heard kid fiddler before, and I think that was an interesting turn of phrase there from Lestat. I'm assuming -- Mhmm. -- it's a reference just to what we talked about last week. Oh, Lestat's gonna say that they were pedophiles, and that's why I killed them. That's not what he's saying here. He's saying that it's easy to dismiss. People will say some dad got mad and and, you know, they disappeared into the Bayou. But this man's a lawyer, people will notice.
Ashley: Right. Right. You know, we gotta keep a tidy house. I mean, even, you know, I think before after their when they're disposing of the priests, he L'Estat apologized for, like, losing his loses his cool. You know, he's, like, you know, we really have to do we really have to clean up after ourselves and we can't just be, like, leaving a gross mess around everywhere. So I think it's I think it's so funny. Anything that anything that I feel like a lot of us are hesitant about gets explained, you know, like, okay. Well, here's an explanation for why LaSalle had that really bloody kill, and he's like, okay. Well, I apologize. I probably shouldn't have been that messy, you know.
Joel: Yeah, he literally calls it out. I one does wonder exactly how they cleaned up all the massive amounts of blood and gore on the inside of the church. What they do with the fire for instance? Although I don't know if I guess if you're gonna stage that a couple of priests got jacked and and murdered, then it doesn't matter so much. You just don't need to leave the specific kinds of gore that they left. Going back to that scene, as you mentioned in the graveyard, though, and I did I did breeze past this, Louie's body dies, and they showed that, I think, very true to form for the for the books, the way that it's described there.
Ashley: Yes. I agree. And I think it was so much fun to watch him watch them kinda walk back into town and, like, when he starts to see the lights, and starts to see the reflection of everything and how everything's new with his vampyre guys, and that's something that's so beautifully described in the books. I'm so glad they took the time to to show that as well.
Joel: Well, and I like that Daniel calls it out too. You were fucking loaded. You were kinda I know that feeling. I've been there before. Absolutely.
Ashley: love that kind of comparison and because they've, you know, because Daniel's been set up as a recovering addict, you know, your your to to draw that comparison between the high and the thrill of a of a of a actual high versus the thrill of a kill is just is really interesting. And also, you know, just that that turning into a vampire, the sharing of the the vampiric blood and all that, and how it's just a heightened experience. And I kind of like those parallels being drawn. It gives people kind of a a different, you know, maybe outlook on it.
Joel: I also love with that, again, very true to the novel, completely just dismissive of this experience for Louie. Yeah. You're dying. It happens to everybody. Get over it. Oh, look at that. You've read. You're red
Ashley: checking. Yeah. Here it comes. Yeah.
Joel: Signified. And then the moment that Louis comes out of that, suddenly, Lestat's attention has drawn back to him. Louis, there's the spark.
Ashley: Yeah. You know?
Joel: And I love that because it is again, this is it is L'Estat. L'Estat is not interested in the awful, you know. But he loves Louis because Louis is this perfect aesthetic creature, which is as you mentioned last week, Lestat's entire moral system basically is based on eestatism and and beauty and, you know, pleasure. In the the scheme of eternity for him. So I love that they they play that out in small moments and they they host it there. The other thing, and we wondered whether they would call this out, but they they called it out specifically. Louis is listing the ways in which he enlists that are different, which is so great. You know, black, white, Creo, French, queer, half queer, mostly queer, question mark question mark, and list that says non discriminating. I love first of all, I love the way that he answers it. Like, the risk the the delivery that Sam gives there is just perfect. But also, Lestat is not. Lestat is is absolutely bi pansexual, whatever you wanna call it. Like, Lastat loves people and souls and personalities so much more than the wobbly bits. You know, and that's that's exactly where that character is coming from, and Sam is playing it from there. I'd I'd dug it.
Ashley: Absolutely. It reminded me so much of one of my favorite moments in the fabulous Schitts Creek where Steve and David are talking about their, you know, kind of you know, sexual orientation, and and and David says, I'm into the I'm into the wine, not the label, and it's it's got a definite feel for that with our with our broiler shot, and I love it. I think that's awesome because that's a hundred percent true, a hundred percent the way the character has been portrayed in every book I've read. You know, he falls in love with he's in love with being in love, you know. He loves Loves to loves our
Joel: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the we I'm referenced it earlier as the b story, but the our story with Daniel and Louis in the in Dubai. I think that a lot of people are gonna have a problem with the dinner, the pageantry of it. The way that Louie lays this thing out over course over course, it really seems to be set up to not just put Daniel on an uncomfortable footing, but almost like a little bit of psychological torture. And it seems very unloyed. I I wanna park that particular part of it because I wanna come back to it in easter eggs, but I want you and I to us. Maybe maybe there's some reasons for why that all seems so unloyed. But to me, I think surface level, I think there's a reason why it could make perfect sense for Louis to be acting this way in that he says it. He calls it out. This book that they're right or going to ride after these interviews are completed. This book should be a warning as much as anything else to the mortal world. Even a vampire like Louis, quote unquote, vegan vampire, the most restrained vampire effectively that exists according to his word. Even that vampire is still a brutal killer and a danger to those around him as he shows to one of his own employees at some point.
Ashley: That is the strangest dinner party. I've ever seen and it it it has a real hannable vector feel to me like he's playing with his food kind of a thing. It's very it's very interesting. And I agree, it's very it feels very unlouy. And I just wonder I I I do wonder what is what he what he what what his motivation is, like, what game he's playing here. I do think a lot of it's to kind of throw him kind of to throw Daniel off balance and to kind of make him feel sort of heady and confused because he can't, like, he can't, you know and he's getting him drunk too. He's making him he's to drink and wine with every one of these courses. It's having like a full glass of wine with every one of these courses. So it's just this really kind of like entoxicating and sort of druggings sort of experience that's happening. It's very strange.
Joel: Which correct me if I'm wrong, sort of strange generally for a former junky to be having that much wine. I mean, generally, the people I knew who have had narcotics issues in the past generally end up being t todlers as far as alcohol goes too because it's a sort of a slippery slope. You get drunk and then all of a sudden your inhibitions are down, your will power is down, to overcome those other vices that you said no to in the past.
Ashley: I mean, that's definitely I mean, that I think that's definitely a lot of people's experience. I do know a lot. You know, there there's definitely a drug or choice kind of, you know, truth out there. There are certain things you just kind of stay away from, and they kind of have and implied or directly said his problem is with meth?
Joel: So there was there was a reference to meth in this episode. In the first episode, Louis asks what's the best high you've ever had. And I believe he references Blackstar, which I would assume means heroin. I think that's the only thing I've ever heard Blackstar before. He calls out where it was from and who gave it to him or whatever, but he you referred to it as Black Tarr. So my guess was that that Daniel was primarily a heroin user, an opioid
Ashley: That I mean, that makes that makes sense. People people do enjoy the opiates.
Joel: Well, as my mother said, after a surgery several years ago, when she had some some high dose painkillers, She says, wow. I understand why people do this. I I've been sitting up on my bed and I just I feel so good today. And I said, mom, there's a reason I call it chasing that dragon.
Ashley: That's that's alright.
Joel: Bad news, man. It's okay.
Ashley: FedEx. You're right. It's like, oh, wow. I feel amazing. Right. Because
Joel: Daniel says you're fucking loaded.
Ashley: Right. I love it.
Joel: So speaking speaking of of that that addictive relationship though, we have a scene that plays out or a couple of scenes that play out with Louis back at home. Now this is a little confusing if you don't pay super good attention. My my wife even mentioned missed it. The first time so he goes to visit Grace at the the the point de la carte home, and Grace is pregnant. He realizes with his vampiric powers, he hears not one, not two, but three heartbeats. In fact, it's twins. It's gonna be twins. And he's so excited. They talk about being an uncle, etcetera, etcetera. That's kind of an interesting little visit there. And then Louie leaves, the next time he comes back to speak to Grace, you again, if you if you blink, you'll miss it. But it's actually five years later, five years of past. He and Lrastat have already done of business dealings. He's bought the fair play saloon and has done a lot of business there. He's been focused on business in his vampiric life. And has not been visiting the family is the implication. Now, it doesn't look like gray so the family is hurting for money. Everybody seems to have prossed expert in the in his absence. So I think probably the funds have continued to go. Maybe he's been sending an agent for himself or something. But Louis, has not been visiting Trump or Grace or or his brother-in-law. As a matter of fact, Grace calls him out. He has never even met the twins that he, you know, discovered in utero before Grace was even public about it. So so maybe he hasn't seen Grace in five years at all. Like, that's not said out loud, but that's the implication. And then Grace presents him with her new child, his new nephew, and promptly leaves the room to which Louie has to now decide whether he can beat the hunger and this throbbing heartbeat in his ear. And whether or not he's going to as Daniel so directly puts it. Did you eat the baby? Did you eat
Ashley: the baby? I to seriously how many TV shows I'm watching right now, that leave me wondering, did they eat the baby? There's a couple that I'm watching now that that's an underlying concern. Did we the baby. I don't know.
Joel: I was discussing earlier today the the fact that I was really enjoying this show and how how good it's turned out and I'm so excited for people to watch it on cable and everything. And a friend mentioned, you know, sort of jokingly, oh, I can't watch that evil stuff about vampires or whatnot. Now I'm gonna go turn back on my show where a white man eats kills and eats a lot of young boys.
Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. And
Joel: I was like, oh, yeah. Dom Domo, of course, is is what everybody's talking about on Twitter lately. I have not gone there myself yet. I I loved Hannibal. I love the vampire list. I love this world in particular. You've heard me talk about I like a lot of dark things. Damer is complicated for me in a lot of ways, but the number one way is because it is it's so real and so recent. I mean, you yeah. You and I That that was yes. Well, not just a trial, but the deaths, you know, that that was the world that you and I grew up in as children was this world where children disappeared. Young men and young women disappeared. On a regular basis, not just dumber, but yes.
Ashley: You know,
Joel: Yeah. I mean, our play patterns and our, you know, post school curricular activities, extracurricular activities, those were altered because of men like Jeffrey Dahmer. So anyway, I'm a little not ready to watch that one yet. But I do think it's funny to hear anybody talk about, like, the violence or the gore or the sort of a morality of this. When shows like, yeah, mind hover and American horror stories and Jeb, you know, the Damer, the monster, whatever the the Netflix series is called. All those those those exist and are very highly praised. So miss me on those particular critiques on this show.
Ashley: It's a yeah. It's a yeah. I think a lot
Joel: of stuff
Ashley: has to do with, like, kind of a religious concern about the dangers and darkness of of vampires and it's that a that satanic panic kind of thing.
Joel: Well, I mean, they did kill two priests in the last episode pretty brutally. So I I suppose there's something there. Did you ever think he was gonna eat the baby?
Ashley: I didn't think that that would happen for sure. I really didn't think that would happen. Figured it was Yeah.
Joel: I thought that'd be a pretty big departure for Louis. Yeah.
Ashley: That was gonna be that was gonna be pretty extreme, I think, for us to have to sit through as well. And I I do think it was interesting that she was so frightened when that baby started crying, though. It's like she kind of instinctively had a feeling that that was a dangerous situation for the baby to be in. Because I was kind of surprised by that. I was like, oh, she's freaking out.
Joel: I thought the same thing too, which is interesting since I mean, she left him she left the baby with Louis, not once, but twice, which says to me that she did not have some sort of foreboding about his otherness, even though she specifically calls out his eyes, does say that he's different than he used to be, etcetera, etcetera. I don't know. I don't know. That was a weird moment for me. I do I I am glad as we said we thought we might. We saw more of grace in this episode. It seems like that might come up back up again. I think there's gotta be at least some resolution for her kind of a a goodbye to her in some way if nothing else. And the same thing with his mother. I think this relationship with his mother and another one just one scene with Rayon Chong in this episode, but incredibly dismissive to list that. I don't recall in finding him. So funny. Oh
Joel: But take your over dressed self and enjoy yourself. Have a ball. You know? I thought that was fantastic. I
Ashley: love that. Lisette's not used to people talking to him like that either, and I love that she's
Joel: And the glimpse inside mama du Lac's head there for Louis as he notices she notices his fingernails. In the fancy sunglasses and says, you know, a man of his kind has a fashion, I suppose. And is dismissive. And you see there, it's interesting too because I kinda gave her credit in the last episode. There's the moment where Paul calls out the relationship between Louis and L'Estat and mother and sister look at each other knowingly. They I think they know exactly what -- Yeah. -- whose sexuality is. And in my mind, accepted it as much as they possibly could. Obviously, they come from a religion and a culture that didn't accept it as as okay. But to me, I thought there was some sort of maybe acceptance is the wrong word. It's definitely not approval, but at least understanding.
Ashley: Yes. Spend of it, you know.
Joel: Here is seems very much like there's there's some self loading on her part for the fact that Louie is this way though.
Ashley: She does have, you know, she's definitely the the judgmental mother there in that moment. And I don't think that's surprising at all. I think that that's pretty on on brand for, you know, the time period is as well and then, you know, just moving this character forward, moving him forward, and having having to eventually have a rift between his family where he's no longer, you know, in contact with them. It's kind of setting all that up.
Joel: I do wonder whether Louis will cause that break directly in some way? Will he be the actual end of either his mother or sister or both? Or will it just be a dissolution of the relationship and and him finally pulling away, you know, for whatever reason or in whatever way? Looking forward to see how that resolves and my guess is that might Yeah.
Ashley: Like, him realizing that he that he has to that he has to walk away. He has to be the one that walks away.
Joel: My guess is that might even come in this next episode. I think we've got one more before we meet Claudia, and I think this is part of that I think I think Claudia comes out of the goodbye to family, maybe in this story. So
Ashley: Well, and he says, you know, this is the first time you hear him say to start, you know, after that after that moment that he has where he's like, I almost ate my nephew. Yeah. And but but he's like, I'm not ever gonna have a family. You know? And
Joel: No sons, no daughters. No
Ashley: sons, no daughters, and it's kind of that first that first inkling that he wants that, that he wants more, that there's something that L'Estat can't provide for him you know, and so off they go to try.
Joel: You're right. I saw a lot of memes with, like, that line and then the light bulb moment.
Ashley: Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: Oh, the stat has an idea.
Ashley: Think maybe I thought I could
Joel: So let's talk a little bit about buying the fair play saloon and the move up into the you know, the the white world of the underhanded business there. It's obviously gonna bring Louis Moore into the public eye. It's gonna cause him more problems. Lestat calls it out. And yet, it clearly brings him a lot of pride and satisfaction
Joel: sort of a a penance for the years of microaggressions and and not so microaggressions that -- Right. -- he's had to suffer in his, you know, mortal life. Well,
Ashley: think being a vampire gives him I mean, it gives him that that feeling of of of having power for being powerful after being in a situation where you're a second class citizen and you are not the power is not with you. The ball is not in your court. When that guy tells him, oh, you've earned your fifteen percent. I was like, oh, you asshole. Are you fucking he's only getting fifteen percent from this shit. I was so angry. I was so angry. And so angry that I totally understood while he was like, I'm gonna fucking kill that guy.
Joel: Will and I love Louie's line there too. He's like, it was unfortunate and random that that man chose that night. To commit some fuckery.
Ashley: You love it. That was so funny and brilliant
Joel: and correct.
Ashley: So that was some fuckery, and I'm glad that he dealt with that assholes.
Joel: Again, though, it it I think this is building towards what we talked about last week, which is this still listed that's lack of understanding that the vampiric vampiric powers that Louis has don't change
Joel: Yeah. They don't change his status in life, honestly. Yeah. They change his choices in how he react. And responds to the nature of the life that he leads. But to not draw attention, he still has to walk a step behind list out
Ashley: when we
Joel: go to the opera. He still has to stand behind him and wait as if he's the valet. And and by the way, what a what gall from L'Estat hey, I'm trying to make it up to you. I wanna take you on a date. Let's go do what I like to do. And also, you have to pretend to be my my my serving man, you know.
Ashley: And where the suit I bought for you?
Joel: yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know. He did smile at the suit at least. So, like, let's Louis, I think, is is into the fashion now, perhaps. I I really enjoyed the in the book, it is a woman that would fill this role. I think actually it's two singers, isn't it? I think the scene has played out largely in the movie as well. That L'Estat brings back to the parlor here to sort of do this slow drain and everything. I love that it played out as it did. Yes, with the tenor. Because this again is something from the books. Also, it's very much something that Hannibal would do. We've mentioned him a couple of times here. Hannibal would absolutely kill the tenor because he couldn't sing as well as the Soprano that's in from out of town.
Ashley: His freaking his finger and marking each note that was missed. Oh, god. I was like, that's what he's doing. I realized that immediately, and I was like, oh, holy shit. This is gonna be wild. You know? And I I love that. They're acknowledging his deep passion and love for music, and that's that's kind of intertwined with the character and that he would be that freaking offended about his titter sucking. Not
Joel: just deep passion and love for the music. A
Ashley: performer. But musicians.
Joel: But but the composer as well. He knew the composer. He was there when this was written and premiered, and it was a moment he'll he'll never forget And I he's rolling in his grave, and I know that because I was there, your son of a bitch. I love when he takes the tenor and tries to explain what he did wrong. He's playing him through the part and explaining it to him and breaking him down mentally and emotionally. You know? Also, Sam Sang, We we didn't expect it so early, but he it's it's lovely. It wasn't featured. He was sort of offhanded in and in the background in French, but still or in Italian, I guess. But lovely. I'm so glad that they got to use that talent that he has. And as we said, supposedly, there's at least a moment or two that we're gonna hear Louis Sing as well. Sometime in here. But then the follow-up to that, he he finally stabs the tinner with his his finger and and makes it where he can't speak anymore, which is so brilliant. And Louie asked him, why did you do that? Yes. Unless that says, well, I like to do it. Well, I like to do it. I enjoy it. And Louie says, well, I don't. And the stats says, then don't do it. That's
Ashley: I didn't tell you you had to enjoy it.
Joel: Yep. Yeah. I love though that that's effectively two guys yelling at each other. Don't yuck my yum.
Ashley: Yeah. It's these these early indications of marital strife we're seeing with our guys here. I love the scene. This is back a little bit, but I adored the scene with the two of them in their coffins. When LaSalle was like, I don't like to go to bed angry.
Joel: I thought that was really nice too.
Ashley: I thought that was fun. It was fun.
Joel: It shows to the power dynamic in this relationship. There is a power imbalance between LESTAAT and Louis as there was in the books. In that, L'Estat has a lot more knowledge, a lot more actual vampiric power than Louis does, etcetera, etcetera. But on the flip side, there is this imbalance of power in that. Louis is in some ways more worldly. Almost than Liasat is. Still, even though Liasat's older in this version, Louis understands this world at least that they're moving in better than Liasat does. And also
Ashley: Matt asked though that he's got a good set up for his vampire life in New Orleans.
Joel: So right. There's also though the the balance of I I mean, as much as Louis calls it out to Daniel in the modern day, he says there was a manner of there was a manner in which I worshiped him, almost speaking about L'Estat. And that's true. Louis is sort of caught in his orbit. But at the same time, L'Estat is the one in the relationship that can't say no to Louis, and he calls it out. How can I say no to you? And that's when Louis finally gives up his pout and smiles and they they make up there in that moment. I I love that that's all played out and and you can see it. You can see that power dynamic go back and forth the ebb and the flow of of who's in charge and who's leading this dance and and
Ashley: Right. It has so much to do with who's who's in charge of the of, like, the temperature of the relationship and how that's, like, this really it it feels like a dance, but it's really a tug of war.
Joel: Yeah. Yeah. It really is. And and then to end, Louie gives in to Listat and joins in the meal of the dinner there. Although Well, I again, very true. How could you say no to him? And and Louis says that to Daniel, basically, I was trying to appease him. I was trying to get along. I was trying to hold on to this relationship all that I knew in the world, all that I had in the world, basically. And then, Louis and Daniel have a great moment to end the episode. Although, again, I think people are gonna be kinda mad at it. Going back to the discussion you and I had last week, is there a straightwashing of the character of Daniel. Is is Daniel here, only a straight man, unlike in the the novels where he is very much a gay
Joel: We get the story of the dessert. The final course is a dessert. Louis tells us that he tries once a week to have a human dish even though it tastes like paste or chalk or or, you know, nothing. What what sort of pinets? It made me think about like you know, the sex of Catholicism where they they tie the needles around their leg or whatever so that every time you kneel, you get you pricked or something like with Why would you do that to yourself, Louie? Why do you make yourself? What are you doing? Punishing yourself.
Ashley: did he say to keep up the thread?
Joel: To keep the thread -- Yeah. --
Ashley: to thread is to keep the image.
Joel: I don't see anything
Ashley: to keep the image. I would try to figure out, like, so that he is able to do that in public when he needs to. It's just interesting. I
Joel: mean, maybe that's what it is. He he maintains, like, he keeps himself used to it. So that it's not so disgusting that he can actually eat morsels in in public. That might be what he means there. I thought it was literally like about about reminding myself that I'm not human almost, you know, like I don't don't get confused that I'm like everyone else or anyone else in fact.
Ashley: Him biting into that fox was looks like this is Jesus. I don't wanna eat I don't wanna eat across from you, sir.
Joel: Well, interesting -- I've
Ashley: ever had. --
Joel: interesting that he serves Daniel for that course rabbit. And then he eats a fox at the other end of the table. Right? I thought that was interesting. You
Joel: prey and and predator there, both on the table. The whole that whole thing and we'll get to this in just a few minutes because I do wanna talk about that in the easter egg section. But the the wrap up, though, I think Daniel has a very personal moment there. He he hears that from Louis. Louis has this this human meal every week and he, you know, I'd heard in one of your books, you mentioned this dessert, and so I thought I'd have it. And so Daniel tells him what this dessert means to him. It's about his first wife, the ate it the day that he proposed, etcetera etcetera. And he's got this beautiful little comment about her eyebrows half blonde and half dark. But the wistful nature of it, the longing that he clearly has for maybe not that particular woman, but the a relationship gone awry the failures of his young life, you know, whatever you see there
Ashley: in his eyes,
Joel: Eric Bozzo is a great actor. You know, he's doing a lot of things all at once with with almost nothing. But but again, that's the moment calls to his relationship with a woman as opposed to a man. Seems to mean a lot to him. Seems to have been, you know, a central moment of his life perhaps. I wonder what they're doing. I I have Listen, I have total faith in the creators at this point. So I'm along for the ride and I'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt that they're going to interesting places there. But that is a thread that I wanna continue to pull as we go along. I wanted to hear your take on it. It was a good moment though to end the episode on, I thought.
Ashley: Was. And you could tell, like, he gets to the point where he's like, I know. This isn't about an interview with me, you asshole. It's an interview with you. And he closes his computer. And he keeps
Joel: Right. Closing himself off again.
Ashley: Yeah. And I love that. I love that moment where he's like, no. Now you've now you've you've kind of crossed a boundary with me and two can play this game.
Joel: The other thing we haven't mentioned yet a little bit more of a hint as to what sort of world Louis is living in here in that We see lots of servants in this episode across the the dinner. We see Rashid again but we also see a a Russian Demic. I think the man's name was who
Joel: in as a Yeah. It's a snack exactly. And then lots of different people coming in to serve the table and and fix the table and take everything away, etcetera, etcetera. Reshid makes a comment at some point that he serves a God?
Joel: My question, and this will lead into our Easter egg discussion. Is he talking about Louis?
Ashley: That's a very good question.
Joel: He says I serve a God and yet And yet many times, he refers to Louis as mister Point de Lac in the third person. He's talking to talking to Daniel about Louis, and he'll say mister point de la. An interesting thing to think about and wonder as we move forward there. I'm I'm super excited to find out more of what his story is and where he comes from and and what is going on there. Yeah.
Ashley: The whole setup seems so unlike Louis on so many levels, but it's nice to see, like, I don't know, like, that how intricately they have their world set up for their, you know, for their safety and for their ability to, like, live the lives that they want to live as they buyers, you know. It's really it's it's cool. I've always found that really interesting how they have to keep, you know, resetting themselves up as as time goes by, as, you know, as as they're supposed to die, and then they can come back as like, the long lost nephew of their dead self, you know, to keep their, you know, their books on track. Yeah. I love
Joel: that. Right.
Ashley: I always love that aspect of it kind of in the background. And it's cool to kind of see it played out on the screen.
Joel: So overall, I thought this is a great episode. It's a it's a wonderful episode too. Again, I feel I feel even more satisfied and even more confident that the this thing is gonna go just as well as the pilot did and and when we get to the end of this first season ride, I think we're gonna be just as excited and looking forward to season two as we are here looking forward to episode three. So kudos. I am on board.
Ashley: A hundred percent. I I was gonna be on board regardless. I'll be on board if the damaged ships that's on fire. I just have to --
Joel: Just have to.
Ashley: -- have to go for it. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: Alright. Quickly, let's get to a couple of easter eggs here. If you haven't read the books and you don't want any speculation about what's to come, now is the time to dip out. Two things short things first, the painting in the dining room Shanley? Well, so there are two paintings there in in this episode to be referenced. We'll get to the other one in a minute. But in the dining room when they're actually eating, There's a painting in the background, Shanley, on Twitter, and I'll put a link to this in the show notes or tweet about it. Fun fact for for a niche audience. In the dining room in Dubai is the storm on the sea of Galilee by Rimbrand. This painting was stolen from the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in nineteen ninety during a heist and is still missing in the real world. I thought that was a nice touch. Right? What a what a brilliant idea? And this is something that is in the books the vampires have stolen a lot of artwork over the years and have a lot of stolen artwork from famous famous artists. So that's a that's a cool touch. The other artwork that you got excited about there. It's right in the beginning of the episode as Daniel is kind of looking around and he has that moment with Rashid. Where he mentions that he, you know, serves a God. The artist is called out as Marius de Romanes, Marius exists in this world.
Joel: And and the the vampires know about him. So I've seen a lot of the I've seen a lot of the fandom sort of clutching their pearls over Marius' incoming existence in this universe because very frankly, as portrayed in the books, Marius is a pedophile. And obviously, that is not the kind of character that anybody wants to root for. Right? He he uses and abuses are wand and apparently many others through the years that are under age. First and foremost, ARMIND in this series is not going to be underage. I I don't I believe they will cast him young. Yeah. I don't believe they will cast him as an underage man. And I think the relationship with Marius and Armand is going to be different. I do think it's going to be a passionate one and a romantic one. I do not think it is going to be that of a master and a child.
Ashley: Yeah. I think
Ashley: again, it's like, what what are we comfortable watching. What are what are we comfortable seeing? What what sort what version of this is is palatable for everyone to consume in a way that's not you know, unhealthy or dangerous or, you know and it it's different with we're talking vampires, and I get that that's, like, it's all fictitious and whatever, but it's still, you know, we don't I hate when when
Ashley: unquote entertainment becomes, you know, like, like, kind of overseps those lines where you feel like you're shredding in really, really gross territory. You know, it's just not not cool to kind of re trigger people that have had those bad experiences. And that sort of thing, it's just not a fun way to consume things in my opinion.
Joel: I, a hundred percent agree. Mary Oster Romanes, of course, from the vampireist at he is the Marius, the creator of our mind. He is this, you know, thousand year old vampire plus he is the mentor of Lastat. He is the one that keeps those who must be kept or did at least once upon a time. Whether or not he's alive at this point in the timeline, How far along are we? Are we post Queen of the damned? Are we post MIMNOC the devil? I gotta tell you, I think based on Louise discussion about, you know, this book being a warning, I think we're post MIMNOC the devil and L'Estat in the modern day right now is in his Comatose state. I think that's where we are. I think Louis and Arman and Marius are kind of running things on a day to day basis, and L'Estat is not around currently. I think that's I think that's where this Louis finds himself. I think it's one of the reasons why he is in contemplative state. I think it's one of the reasons why he's thinking about warning the public because maybe he doesn't trust or love or respect quite as much as L'Estat at least, those that are now seemingly calling the shots. And in particular, I wonder if we're not at Louise compound in Dubai. I wonder if we are in Oman's compound in Dubai. Rashid, I believe, serves our mind, not Louis. And I gotta tell you right now, I think we're gonna see our mind before the season goes. I know I said last week we weren't. I've changed my mind. I think they're working towards our mind. I think we might even see him soon.
Ashley: think okay. Very that's that's interesting. I if man, if they've kept that under their hat this long, that is seriously good secret keeping on their set.
Joel: It'll be so impressive if they pull it off. But I I think, first of all, this this decor is not Louie. It does not scream Louie. It screens aren't mined if you look around. The collection of Marius' paintings, that again is not something that Louis does in the book. Now, Louis does like art, but I don't see him chasing down Marius's paintings. Also don't see Armando parting with any.
Ashley: Yeah. There's times that Louis just hanging out in, like, a rundown old house. Right. Like, he's not fairly, like, the most luxurious of our of our vampires. Yeah. That's a very interesting point. I hadn't really considered that because it does seem kind of out of character, that space itself seems out of character. Though, I mean, you think about moving forward in time and them, you know, finding finding the new the new fashion and things like that, who the hell knows. But oh, I did like that they that he asked him, did the pandemic kind of bring all this up? Like, does that making everybody all, you know, what does he say that pandemic or the state of things in the world.
Joel: I thought, okay. So there and there's a there's a there's a comment there too that I have been searching for crazily, and I can't find I I I don't know if it's a reference. He calls out some so ever so slightly earlier than that. Louie is talking about what a nice vampire he is and how he's got his instincts and check, etcetera, etcetera. And and Daniel says, oh, like all the rest of them, and Louis says no, very much unlike unlike the rest of them. They're crazed for blood. And then he calls out, there's one brute in Madagascar.
Joel: Who wants it to be a great conversion? He's gonna turn the whole world into vampires is is the the implication there. I don't know. I don't I mean, what so listen. In the in the later books, in in the Prince listings, there are a couple of names that are very powerful vampires that haven't really been discussed before. They're weaved into the story and made antagonists to Lastat and your your central you know, protagonist vampires for those two or three stories. It could be one of those, but I can't find anything in the alphabet Afulbattery or my searching that makes either one of them a direct call out from Madagascar. And I can't find anything that mentions a discussion of a great conversion. So I don't think either one of those ideas come directly from the novels. If you know what that is a reference to, please, pretty please. Tell us in the comments or or send us a message on Facebook or put it on the the the Facebook spoiler thread discussion, whatever. I'd love to know it if anybody finds it. But so far in my searching, I haven't found an answer to that one. I I do think though it is interesting that the pandemic might be a supply chain issue for vampires. Right. Like, is it a I mean, there's a lot of a lot of extra death all of the sudden, a lot of people out of pocket, but also a lot of awareness suddenly of people that die perhaps. Maybe that's caused a little extra scrutiny. Or
Ashley: maybe a lot of people dying means that you can pass your kills off as
Joel: Oh, maybe it's open season now because we can we can just kill them all and they'll go, oh, I don't know. It's a fever. It's just like the Wharf's in New Orleans and nineteen ten. The the compound there in Dubai though, you you were mentioning, like, you know, now that I think about it, it doesn't seem like Louis, It seems like to me, the night island from Taylor the body thief, you know, the end of Queen of the damned and and the beginning of Taylor the body thief, Our minds built this place off, yeah, off the coast of Miami. And it's only open at night, and it's this great sanctuary for vampires, but also it's a tourist trap and a a great revenue source for him, you know. Right? Well, this place in Dubai just screams that to me. I I think this is gonna end up being one of Arman's locations that, you know, the coven of the articular welcome at. Including Louis especially as he is a a particularly beloved, you know, a friend and companion of our minds. But I I just get the sense Louise being overseen here by somebody still, and I think that's that's the reveal yet to come. We will cross our fingers and hope they they get to it sooner rather than later. It's gonna be so exciting if they have cast our mind and kept it from us.
Ashley: Yeah. I mean, that's that would be such a great trick to pull. I I would be very pumped about that. But, I mean, oh, I just It's going so well. I'm so excited about what's next.
Joel: I am to I am to speaking of what's next let's scroll down here and look. The next episode is entitled, is my very nature. That of a devil. That's gonna be out on October ninth on AMC Plus and then October sixteenth on cable. And we will record our discussion of that episode sometime on the ninth and have it out for you later that evening right along with with your watching pleasure. I hope it's fantastic. And then the episode after that, I'm not gonna give you the title yet, but I'm pretty sure we're that's gonna be our Claudia episode. I I think we get one more week before Claudia's entry, but she is coming friends. She's coming soon. That
Ashley: feels timing wise about right. Like, like, either we'll see her at the end or at the end of this next one or the definitely, I think, the the fourth episode for sure. They can't they can't leave her out there very much longer.
Joel: Speaking of the the week early release on AMC Plus, apparently, is not just for interview with the vampire. That's kind of their go to move. They've been doing it for a year or two with The Walking Dead. I've been told now by a couple of older AMC fans that are around for all of those shows. They're like, yeah, this is what they do. So so we're on board for it. I'm excited for it. That means that you and I won't go we won't have to wait more than a week to get a new episode even though we're working a little bit ahead now. So folks, Do your homework before you listen to our next episode. Make sure you've watched episode three of interview with the Vampire. Please go to our Facebook page. Our Facebook group, I should say, and join our discussion there or tweet at us articulate coven, and let us know what you're thinking of the show. Let us know if you've got any questions. Let us know if you've got an answer for that the brute from Madagascar, who might that be? Who is that a reference to in the in the episode? And whose whose apartment do you think this is? Whose house is this on the top of the tower in Dubai? Where we at? Exactly. Who because, again, you could have met I you could tell me that Arman set that whole dinner up, and I'd believe it way faster than Louis set that whole dinner up. You could talk me into Louis but it's easy for me to believe that our minds set it up. Any final thoughts, Ashley, before we tell them goodbye this week?
Ashley: No, not really. Just that I think like, you know, looking on looking online, it feels like a lot of people were really, really pumped by this episode and were even more kind of enthusiastic about it. Than the first one. I've seen a lot of people that had a lot of skepticism about it that have kind of come around and are and are really excited about it. So I think that that's something just bear in mind, even if you're feeling skeptical about it, if you're not quite sure you're ready to dive into it yet, just know that, like, it'll be there when you are ready. And Don't don't miss out because you're afraid it's not gonna be exactly what you want. I think that they're telling a really great story. I think that there's a lot of depth to it that that makes it make is gonna make it overall a more rich and and more accurate telling of of of these characters and in these time periods they're living in and and and their relationships with each other.
Joel: Oh, a hundred percent. I agree. I think that's such a a great way to put it. I yes. That's what I'm trying to do too. Take this story for what it is and enjoy it. For what it is first, then you can always come at a deeper level with somebody like you, Ashley, who I know loves these books and loves these stories and loves these characters. You and I can have a nitpicky discussion. What the hell is with Louis and L'Estat talking to each other, but not being able to talk to each other in their heads, you know, those sorts of things. That's a second level though. First level, enjoy the heck out of what we're getting because we're getting good stuff folks. Alright. Until next time. We've been the articulate coven. We are your hosts.
Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.
Joel: And I'm Joel Sharpton, and this is the articulate
Joel: coven. Thanks for listening to the Articulate Cove. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your Am Rice loving friends.