Just Be Glad You Get Sam Reids A$$ - Ashley and Joel Discuss “In Throes of Increasing Wonder…” Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E01 - AC013
Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to
Joel: the Articulate Cove and we are your hosts.
Ashley: Ashley Wright Heiler.
Joel: I'm Joel Sharpton, and we are the Articulate Cove and Friends. It's here. It's real. It actually happened Thursday morning. Four days early, they dropped the damn episode. And there you go. You and I had our Thursday's plan for us, Ashley.
Ashley: Yes, we did. And any plans that we had previous to that episode dropping completely out the window.
Joel: So right off the top, I wanna talk a little nonspoilers somebody happens on this episode and hasn't heard the episode yet. They're just dipping their toe into the water. What is what what do I what do my people think about it? Here's when I think about it. I think it was awesome. Is it a perfect word for word, scene for scene, line for line adaptation? It is not. It's not that's not what we expected. We knew there were going to be changes. We knew there were going to be updates. We've talked even before this show took shape. We talked about how there were rooms there were there were spaces for improvement in an adaptation. We used previous examples of of works that have done the that very thing. Updating from modern understanding and a modern context. This is that. And I think it is as good as we possibly could have hoped it would have been.
Ashley: Oh, I completely agree. I I yeah, I'm I'm in love already. I mean, but I'm, you know, I'm a cheap fan, so you don't have to do a lot to make me happy. But I thought I think everything just right off the bat is just beautiful to look at. It's just gorgeous. I immediately started, you know, googling hotel rooms in New Orleans so that I could get down there as quickly as humanly possible. The costumes look amazing. The actors look amazing. I think the casting is really really on point. It's just fantastic. I'm I'm thrilled.
Joel: I am too. I am I am so pleased. I mean, and it is literally like I'm getting teary eyed thinking about it right now, but I have I have cried, not watching the show. I did get teary eyed watching the show the first time, but I have cried thinking about this show and how important it is to me and how pleased I am with it and how in so many ways actually it feels like they did this just for me. And it's not like I'm owed anything and it's not like I did anything to deserve it and I didn't even really, like, I I mean, you and I started this show. That's what we did for the fandom as far as, like, to to to pay our dues. We've read the books again. You know, the first five books again. We we have started a Facebook group. We've been a little more active on Twitter about this particular thing that we care about. But damn it, it feels wonderful to see these characters out of my head and on the screen and done so well and with such love.
Ashley: Absolutely. I think that that that's something that I feel like comes through and it's something we kind of talked about when we watched the behind the scenes. Episode they gave us. And just that it it feels like such a love letter. You know, it's I'm seeing these characters fleshed out more deeply than they've been before on screen. I mean, as as far as, you know, interviews with Empire, the film goes, you limited because you only had that, you know, two hour time period to tell the story in. But now we're really getting to see more in-depth these characters come to life. And and the way that they've made the adjustments that they've made have kind of sped up a lot of the back story and kind of put things on, like, a a little bit more of a a high speed collision course, I feel like, which is fantastic. Because we don't want a lot of background. We wanna get to we wanna get to the meat of this story. Howard Bauchner:
Joel: I think that's well said. And and Further than that, I think we're gonna have to talk spoilers. So if you haven't watched the episode, bow out now. Go enjoy it. It's available on AMC Plus. And it's it's on cable on AMC starting Sunday night the second. So there you go, folks. Put it on your D. V. R.
Ashley: And I will see this I will see this too about because Sol and I talked about getting our, you know, doing our accounts through strictly through AMC Plus, but I had messed up and done mine through Amazon. But my episode dropped at the same time yours did.
Joel: Really? Okay. So that is is so wonderful to know and hopefully that will continue to be the case. I will say I looked because I'm still subscribed through Apple as well. And on the Apple TV app, that was true for me too. The Thursday morning, the episode showed as available. The TV app was suggesting I watch it. Even before I you know, I went ahead and watched it on the AMC app because I wanted to see what all they had to offer. I wanted to start using their app very frankly. And I still think I don't know that you and I talked about this in the podcast episode. It occurs to me. We talked about it on the Facebook group. I had had the understanding. And and people online have told me that sometimes when you subscribe to the AMC service through one of the channels. So Amazon Prime offers it or the Roku service offers it or Apple TV offers it as an Apple TV channel. Effectively, you watch it through the TV app. You watch it through your Amazon Prime video app. When you do that, supposedly, the Walking Dead fans especially had said their episodes had not dropped as early as if you use the AMC app directly. And if you subscribe through the channels, you cannot use the AMC app. There's no way for you to log in. So I had posted on the Facebook group, hey, everybody go use the AMC app directly if you're gonna do it. This seems to be a problem. See, maybe that's not the issue for those of you. And I will say, I know in Australia, I think subscribing through a channel service is maybe the only way to get it. That may be true for some of our international listeners and and viewers fans too. So watch for that if you can not get the AMC app directly through your App Store and just create an account, check if it's available through one of the services that sort of double sells those streaming services.
Ashley: Yeah. And if you sign that you're getting blocks because of, like, your location, you can always utilize a VPN.
Joel: And, I mean, it's fallen off the back of a few trucks as well. And I think episodes will continue to do that. I don't approve of that, but here's my thing. If you're a fan and you're in a part of the world where they're not giving it to you in any legal way that you can access easily. I think you are morally okay to just then order something from the store. And when it comes to your location legally, then please use it that way as well. Stream it again or or buy it if you can on DVD or Blu ray down the road or whatever. But you know, these companies have got to figure it out. We talked about that on the Facebook page as well or the Facebook group, I should say, which by the way, if you're listening to this and don't join us on Facebook, you can do that. We're at Articulate Cove and searches there as a group. We have good discussions going on from time to time. But it is something that I think Disney in particular does a great job of. Paramount is beginning to do a better job. All of these companies are finally waking up to the international opportunities, but Netflix and Disney have been way out ahead as far as, hey, we're gonna sell this everywhere all at the same time. It's the only way to be fair to the fans and it's the only way to to reap all the financial reward without losing a bunch of it to piracy?
Ashley: Absolutely. But by all means, if you must pirate pirates. I'm all about a little bandit action.
Joel: Listen, I guarantee you, L'Estat owns a t shirt at some point in the seventies and says I stole this t shirt. You know, or or, you know, whatever. Still still this album. So okay. Let's get into this thing. Let's talk spoilers. Bow out now if you haven't heard the episode or forever hold your peace. Ashley, first off, I have to say this because it is so cool. And as a as a podcast producer myself, intros and outros are a big thing. The immortal universe has its own credit real.
Ashley: Yes, it does.
Joel: Just like the Marvel Universe or god forbid, this this this was a a bad omen, but the the dark universe at universal when they made the new Tom Crew's mummy movie. They they brought out this whole rolling intro just like the MCU movies. And then, of course, that's the only one in that quote unquote universe. This is not gonna be the only one. If nothing else ever happens, the second season of this show will have the same intro as will the Mayfair the lives of the Mayfair which is coming later this year or the first of next year. I'm getting conflicting reports on when that's gonna launch, by the way. But what a cool thing? What did you think of the design of both that and the title sequence for the show itself?
Ashley: Oh, just I I mean, I'll be honest. I need to watch again to really absorb it all because I was just like a giddy teenager, like, just giggling and I was I mean, I can't describe properly my excitement and it really does turn me into, like, a silly teenager. Like, I get I mean, I have just been beside myself over this and really fangirling super hard. Like, I even feel in my enthusiasm, like, my use, you know.
Joel: Absolutely. Absolutely. And rightfully so. So the the intro sequence for the immortal universe is just this inor Innate or ornate, I should say, that there we go. I'll find the word in a minute. Ornate sort of like mechanical looking almost like a music box or a, you know, like a a clock. It looks very, very cool as it rolls out those words in mortal universe across the screen. And then the title sequence for the show itself, first and foremost, I love it. It's an orchestra tuning up. Right? That sort of swells into the and and it it's it's lovely at first, and then it's very minutes sitting for a moment and then it's incredibly powerful as it closes. Meanwhile, the image is building and it's of a cityscape but also a bite mark. It's it's it's teeth as well, you know. Very very well done. Again again just excellent design, and I think shows top to bottom, these people love these characters. These people love this world. I think, you know, the folks behind that title sequence, so you can feel it. These people get An Rise, they they like these characters too, they like these stories, and everybody seems to be excited to be a part of it.
Ashley: Well, it's showing a top to bottom investment in it too, you know. Like, if you are spending the time to create these these really well thought out beautiful sequences that put us in the mind of, like, Game of Thrones, that opening sequence was something I would never skip, you know, because there were also with that there were also, like, little clues and hints and things that changed within it, you know. And I think that it's just it's just another thing that show is showing their attention detail and that their commitment to everything.
Joel: Absolutely. So what did you think of Roland Jones language? Roland Jones, the show runner, a writer for this episode in particular. I feel like he nailed it, honestly. In particular, right off like, early in the episode, mister Anderson, Luis competition, quote unquote, at at the the larger white led brothel. He comes into the room and he has this wonderful line. I had to go write it down. Can't see the dirt for the dollars falling. Louis says, you're shaking the money tree. Aren't you mister Anderson? And he says, can't see the dirt for the dollars falling, Louis? As he comes into the room. And I'm like, boy, that's so great. You and I talked about just from the trailer and the little pieces that we had heard that that Jacob Anderson as Louis really seems to have nailed his accent.
Joel: Across this first episode, I am very pleased with the accents.
Ashley: I've great. And that's something that can really ruin ruin it for me. I mean, as as
Joel: Well, we're from here.
Ashley: Yeah. A hundred percent. So it's it is. It's wild to, like, hear someone speaking, you know, your your dialect and and just efinite up royally. It's just painful. And so to hear everything, it's just lyric almost. It's they've got they've got that that lumps of of that particular region so beautifully. I'm very charmed by it. It's not someone doing like a a sick like Georgia kind of drawl, it just feels more like it has that real South Louisiana feels to it. I love it. Well,
Joel: there's a lot of levels too. Right? And you see the even code switching amongst characters. Louis, especially how he speaks to his brother in anger. Versus how he speaks to his mother at dinner versus how he speaks to his workers when he's, you know, chiding them on to get something done. And all of those are true, but they are flavors. Just as you and I, we speak with one accent when we're speaking to our professors, or our coworkers, we speak with a different accent when we're speaking to our mamas. Right?
Ashley: Right. Absolutely. And if they've had a couple of wisces in May, you know, I sound like more.
Joel: It's a whole different one. Yeah. Absolutely. So let's do the credits real quick, by the way, directed this episode directed by The Great Alan Taylor. Alan Taylor comes from the HBO school. I might say I mean, he did a a million things at HBO I think probably best known at this point for a a handful of the best Game of Thrones episodes. Yes. But he also Ashley, I don't know if you've seen it. He directed the the ghosts of Newark. No. What what that's not the name of it. The many saints of Newark. The the prequel movie to the Sopranos series. Alan Taylor, of course, had done some Sopranos episodes as well, but he directed the movie. Also did a great job on that. It was beautifully done. I think he doesn't shine, right, as like a spielberg or a, you know, who's the the British guy who did the Batman movies? Oh, Nolan. Nolan. Yes. I don't know why his name has gave me. All I can think about is L'Estat now. Anyway, he's not a showy name. Alan Taylor's not. No. But he can tell a story. He also knows really well how to work within a showrunner's vision, I think, which is the like, you come in as a writer who's going to be with the series episode in and episode out, like Roland Jones is gonna be Alan Taylor may come and go. He may direct a bunch of these episodes. He may only direct this one. I'm not sure. But he works well under that sort of show runner paradigm, I think.
Ashley: When I feel like AMC has kind of a a good history of supporting show runners you know, like, this is the same company, of course, that gave us breaking bad, you know. And now we have better call song, we have a whole universe. That's, you know, that Vince Gylligan world. And they were always so good about supporting them and and giving them what they needed to make to make it happen.
Joel: Absolutely. Absolutely. Raul and Jones, by the way, we didn't really talk about this before, but he's known for weeds. He was a producer and writer there. He was with Friday night lights back in the day. He was on Boardwalk Empire. He was on Perry Mason, the the Perry Mason remake on HBO, which I think is supposed to come back at some point for for another season or two. I I wonder if they're gonna build that to the place where Perry's an actual lawyer, like the TV show. I don't know. I I still haven't watched all of it. I watched the first episode. I loved it. I was like, I gotta chew over this sometime, and I just haven't got around to it. My wife and I were lamenting just yesterday. There's just too much damn good TV.
Ashley: Oh, I know. There's so much good stuff to watch right now. It's My my two watch list has gotten ridiculous.
Joel: So so there there's the two that I wanted to mention, and we'll try to always mention for you the director and writer, but Roland Jones and and Taylor, the pair behind this episode. And I I think they knocked it out of the park. A great start to the series. It'll be interesting to see how long this thing is on cable. Ashley, it's an hour and twelve minutes. Well, I say that it's not actually. It's an hour and twelve minutes with the little follow-up insider episode. Or episode insider that that Rollins has at the the end of the thing. But it is over an hour the episode itself. I'm wondering how much of it will be cut for cable.
Ashley: Oh, I didn't even think about that. It does sort of
Joel: Well, I mean It's being
Ashley: released early on the on the app and everything, it feels like an AMC plus series. I'll most. You know what I mean? Like, more than an AMC series.
Joel: Well, so I saw in a clip about the lives of the Mayfair, which is episode just, I don't know, yesterday day before. I think it may be an AMC Plus only. Thing, not actually dropping on cable. We'll we'll have to see. But so I do think there is they want their cake and they wanna eat it too. Right? They obviously wanna continue to feed the cable beast and collect those ad dollars. But also, AMC knows the long game is they gotta get all these people with a direct consumer relationship. So and they make great they make great content. Like, I you go look at the app. There are tons of things on there that's really compelling and that you've heard about probably, but that you haven't gotten around in my case, at least haven't gotten around to watching. One thing that I was surprised about just talking about AMC in general, because of the existing contracts, you don't have breaking bad available on the AMC app. And you don't have better call sol available on the AMC app. They've got a right. Now I think those will eventually come back home. Right? But there's no telling how long those contracts are. Well, yeah, absolutely. It's it's I think it's just a matter of, like, how long did you make that original contract for? But then also it may be something like what Paramount has done with the Star Trek stuff as far as overseas. They're sort of selling it off in a lot of places overseas because that's that's great funding to then go and pay for the show. I mean, that's how they launched Discovery. They got Netflix to pay for the international rights. Which absolutely paid their budget for the first season of Star Trek: Discovery. Blackout didn't put out a dime for it. Netflix did. And then Paramount got to launch a streaming service domestically with it and then, you know, go on to where they are now. It worked out alright for everybody. I think AMC is working on similar plans. And with this series, they've got it from the very start. Right? So Netflix won't have any part of this. And not just this series but the whole world. Same thing's true for The Walking Dead. Netflix has --
Joel: -- like the first ten seasons, and then AMC Plus has the, quote, unquote, the final seasons or whatever. You know? So you can see why AMC is so interested in this content. Let's talk about why we're so interested it in it and so happy with it what we got so far. Where do you wanna start, Ashley? Well, I
Ashley: of just wanted to start about the world building. And we all You know, like, with a with a I think, you know, we've seen a lot of pilots for shows come and go. And I mean, this is a little different because they knew they had the whole season. They knew that they were, you know, doing a full season to start with. But for a pilot episode, it's reading this like a pilot, it's amazing. They did such a good job of of number one, creating the correct, like, vibe, the correct feel of the place, setting up New Orleans, setting up New Orleans' place, setting up different sections of the city and and understanding the vibe of different areas of town, like immediately that's there. I could recognize, you know, I was like, oh, someone just got killed in pirate's alley. Awesome. You know, like, places that I have in the city. And I'm like, you know, I can't wait to go. Have a drink right there again immediately, you know. And so I just loved the the, like, the world building I think is really really on point. Everything looks the way it's described in those books. You know what I mean? Like, it feels like like the wallpaper looks right. You know, down to that kind of detail.
Joel: I I I agree with you a lot. Here's one thing that I have heard that so first of all, we talked about the casting in our behind the scenes episode and and previously, we talked about the casting of Jacob Anderson as Louis. And, of course, there was a lot of backlash originally because hey, he's a black guy, not a white guy. He's not gonna be a plantation owner anymore. He's gonna be you're gonna move him into the nineteen hundreds. He's gonna be a brothel owner. What? And it's so funny, by the way, I remember hearing those rumors, talking about them even with you, and then the gulf of between hearing that the first time and the show starting rolling out with the images was so big. I had forgotten about it entirely and didn't have any kind of preconceived notions on it almost at all. I will say the one bit of criticism that I've heard about the character of Louis and the changes that they've made that has struck home to me after I've heard it. It didn't occur to me as I watched the episode. I watched it twice. Didn't occur to me either time. But I've heard that Louie in the books. Loews Loews Loews that classical feel, the feel of his youth and mortal life. Right? The his his well, the house that he lives in in New Orleans doesn't even it doesn't even have electricity. He likes the old furnishings. He likes the old, you know, lighting elements. He likes the old clothes even he wears a very old fashion style clothes, whereas the Louis that we see here in the modern day anyway is in Dubai in this like ultra, modernistic, you know, minimalistic, etcetera, etcetera. Even his clothes are very modern and sleek, Yes. Also, he makes a comment about how he's sort of bored by life and where Louis in the books is Well, not that. Basically, it always fascinated by a butterfly, you know. Right. And and torn by the very concept that his life exists at the cost of others. So I hear that and I go, that is interesting that they made changes. I also see though the acceleration of the timeline or the extension of the timeline, I should say. The characters that we're seeing in the modern day are much further along in the books than we're thinking. Right? This Louis this Louis may already be consort to Prince L'Estat. And sorry, slight spoiler for a very late book. But, I mean, like, the princelet's start book, the first one, at least, may have already happened. We don't know. We don't know exactly how far ahead they are. We know their first we know MIMNOC has already happened. Raul and Jones has said that, like the first five books have happened, and now this interview is happening. So with that in mind, I think that there is room for a evolution of Louis, and I think that I'm I'm holding back to see that sort of thing. But other than that, I am a million percent with you though. I would I once I heard that and I was like, oh, you're right. Yeah. That room is weird for Louis. But we don't know that that's Louie's room.
Ashley: Right. Or We
Joel: don't know that that's Louie's place.
Ashley: What version of Louie were were even talking? Yes.
Joel: What is Louie's current what is Louie's current circumstance that has driven him to start this interview again with Daniel. You know, we don't know that exactly.
Ashley: Something that I really loved was seeing getting to see why List stock fell for Louis.
Joel: You know what
Ashley: I mean? I feel like especially in the film version of this, Louis is such a sad sack. You know, and we've talked about him being the e o r of the vampires. You know what I mean? But it was kind of, to me, really interesting and sort of exciting to see Louis having a little bit more fun being, you know, seeing a more kind of fleshed out version of that character that's not just you know, kind of this one-sided like, oh, what was everything?
Joel: You know, if you only read the book, if you only read the first book especially, Lastat has a very clear motive for for trapping Louie. He needs a house. He needs wealth. Right? He doesn't understand how to get along in the new world. He's got this dying father that is, you know, taking up all of his money and time because he's gotta keep somebody taking care of this old man during the day while he's asleep. So Louis is an escape for him and lifeline, a giant piggy bank.
Ashley: Right. But that's --
Joel: No. -- we only know that
Ashley: from Louise' perspective.
Joel: Exactly. Exactly. And we know after the fact lestat has untold riches. That's not what happened at all. Exactly. And so this and even if you watch just the movie, if you watch just the movie, I think L'Estad is such a predator in the movie. And Louis is so broken and so fragile and and as he says, longing for death. Right. So, L'Estat, the predator comes in and takes him. You know, he's easy pray. Here, they court for like a month -- Yeah. -- in between their meeting and and Paul's and well in the wedding. Let's say the wedding. Yeah. So that time period though is pretty it's a long I don't know exactly how long it is, but it's many dates. Louie refers to it as it was a cold winter and Lou Enlisttat was my coal fire. Right? So, like, maybe that was three two three months, maybe even I don't know. There's several. It was a long time. And L'Estat courted him. He fell in love with him completely. We don't know exactly what Lestat's motivation is that we know he's intrigued by Louis, right, from the moment that he sees -- Absolutely. -- particularly that that moment, Louie pulls the the cain knife on his brother. I mean, he calls it out later in French, which is so so damn wonderful. Anyway, but we don't know where L'Estad is right now. We haven't heard him tell it yet. We don't know what circumstances brought him to the New World at this moment. We do know he's older than he was in the book story because this is further along in his journey. How long did he spend with Marius in this universe? You know? Yeah. How did his relationship with our mind resolve? Exactly in this universe. We don't know. What we do know is according to him, he was headed to Saint Louis, but he found him in New Orleans instead. What a what a beautiful set of lines there too. So anyway, I I think that this is a It is different. It is different than either the book or the movie, but I think it is going to be better for it. This is a relationship.
Ashley: To me though. You know what I mean?
Joel: Well, it feels it feels similar because we know the a more full version of this relationship. Right. We don't
Ashley: Right. If it's if I'm someone
Joel: You and I don't think about that first book.
Ashley: Yeah. And if I'm someone that's only watched that movie and I'm like, I love interviews, the vampire. Like, I love it. It's my favorite movie. You know, and maybe you didn't dabble into the books. You just love that movie, then this this could be really jarring and confusing. Because this is showing a much a much more in-depth and much more like and we we literally jolmine I know things that you don't know yet. And so we're not gonna be as aggravated about some of the changes as someone who is literally just in love with that movie. You know what I mean?
Joel: I think as as toxic as these two can be to one another. From time to time and will be over the course of this season, let alone the series overall. I do think that this starts their relationship more closely to how it is resolved in the books as at least as as it currently exists. You know, the even even after the first five books, Louis and Léstate have come to a peace with one another and coexist. They they move in each other circles. They are not always companions every single day with each other. They have a lot of other companions among the coven of the articulate, but Louis and L'Estad are together and remain together. So I like the fact that the series is showing us more of each other of of each of these you know, men, but also the relationship itself and the foundations of it here at the beginning. It will make it make more sense. In a world where L'Estat doesn't quote unquote need Louis like he did in the book supposedly. And where Louis is not as helpless as he was in the film so that it will it will make this make both more sense and also be more heartbreaking as the season rolls along and their rises and falls come. All
Ashley: of those
Joel: things will be more interesting and more compelling television, but also still, as you said, feel true to the character.
Ashley: Right. And the stakes are the stakes are so much higher when the relationships have been built and they're and and And, you know, when it taking the time and building the relationship and making it more genuine to what we know the relationship to be, It just it it amps the stakes up immediately because it's not just like an antagonistic kind of back and forth that you can sort of get the vibe of some times in the book. It's more it's more of a genuine representation of what their relationship is. Outside of just being told from from the Louie perspective. And and that makes it all the more makes the relationship more important. It makes the the conflicts more important. It makes the distance that they have to spin apart more important. It makes Claudia more important than one hundred and ten percent.
Joel: O o o. You are so. Right. Claudia in this series is not going to be a mistake or an afterthought. I think this is it's it's so clearly building toward that already. Already in the first episode, I've here's what I love the most though. We've been talking about this vampire show for thirty minutes almost, and we haven't mentioned fangs or blood or killing almost at all. Like we're talking about a rom com. But that it is it is absolutely it is absolutely a romantic story first. Yeah. And I am so excited to see it. Alright. Let's talk a little bit though about let's let's kind of run through some of the characters. Let's start where the episode starts. Daniel. This take on Daniel's so cool. We knew it was gonna be good. You talked about excited to see Eric Bogosi and the more seasoned interviewer, etcetera, etcetera. Starting with the master class commercial, it was so good. It was such a clever way to do it. We get a bunch of his credentials. We get a glimpse of, like, who he is in the world, but in a funny way. And then also at the end of it, he changes the channel on himself, like, damn, I'm full of this BS, you know,
Ashley: kinda see
Joel: great great moment there. One question for you. And honestly, this is not my This is not my bone to pick, but I have heard from different people that they feel like Daniel's been straight washed. In the book, slice boiler folks we we understand that he has first of all, he does meet Louis in a gay bar. I had forgotten that from the novel, but it's true in the novel. Also, he has a relationship with Armand. He he goes to New Orleans at the end of this book to try to find L'Estat Lastad is still in the ground at this point, and our wand eventually finds Daniel instead. And they have twelve fifteen years, something like that relationship. And eventually, Daniel is is turned himself. That's the novel Daniel. I didn't a lot of stuff where it's a great part of Queen of the Day. I'm just gonna go and read it. But It's storyline. This is clearly not going to be that exact well, he's definitely not a vampire yet anyway. He's not So
Ashley: here's my question is, has he had that experience with Armand yet?
Joel: That's my
Ashley: happened in his All but You know?
Joel: Everything that I see being mad about him as a straight wash. That meaning in the in the in the book, he is a or in the novels, he is a a queer character, a homosexual character, and in the show theoretically, at least he's a straight man. He tosses off Louis reference to him being, you know, the the meeting in a gay bar. I was there to score drugs. I did what I had to do. And he's been married twice. We assume to women, we're pretty sure he has children. I don't think he calls it out specifically, but he we do see toys in the old box that he pulls out the the, you know, the the boom box from. I I don't see it as straight watching. First and foremost, the moment where he tosses off Louis and says, no, that's not what it was. I was just there to score drugs. It's very similar to me as when Louis lies to his family about going to the opera, and lest that calls him out on it. It's it's one of those toxic masculinity. No. It's not I'm a man's man. Right. There's a few of those moments in this episode. And I think I think there I think we're supposed to draw a line to all of that. I think I think Daniel death protests too much a little bit on that. I think we're gonna find out more about him and his sexuality as we go. My biggest question is, do he and Ormand? Is Louis the only vampire he's ever met? Right. I don't believe it is.
Ashley: Well, I mean, that relationship with Ormand is a real real mind thought for for Daniel too. It's not like like Armando was fucking wasn't hardcore a lot.
Joel: Well, I mean, and and having a guy that looks twenty years old show up again and again randomly, that ruined a couple of marriages for you probably too, wouldn't it?
Ashley: Right. For sure. For sure. I didn't to be honest, I didn't clock that at all. But it's something that I will watch I will watch for going forward because, I mean, like you said, that's not I mean, it's not it's not necessarily our boat to pick, you know. But if if the community has noticed, you know, kind of that sort of
Ashley: we definitely definitely wanna keep an eye out for that. The thing that makes me feel like it's probably gonna be explained and maybe, you know, explored a little bit more in-depth is simply because they don't seem to be shying away from any of the, like, homosexual vibes. Or blatant offense. Absolutely. In the book. So that makes me feel like, well, there's probably a plan there. Or maybe the show runners missed it and didn't clock that as being something that was going to be important to viewers. And and maybe it's just a piece of the storyline that got dropped. Which is a real bummer if that's something that people connected to. You know what I mean?
Joel: I I think unless there are some big surprises before the end of this season, I think all of that stuff is open for them to hear how the audience responds. And even if they didn't originally plan to give Daniel that backstory, I think they still could. I mean, I think there's a lot of room in this universe to draw stories in the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, all over the place there, that would be really interesting. And you could you could drop different things in at different times across whatever show you wanted to, you know. You can have a whole season with young Daniel in our mind. Like, without changing, what we know about the interviewer here, you know, and only adding to.
Joel: let's move on from Daniel to our leading man himself, Jacob Anderson and Louis.
Ashley: He's so he's so lovely. I just to me right now, so far, he's embodied that character so beautifully for me. Because I like thinking about Louie with more depth than than our e o r vampire. You know what I mean? I like the parts of Louis that are strong, the parts of Louis that are protective, the parts of Louis that are insulent. You know? I don't I like the character having more depth to me, that kind of, like, flat, flat version of of Louis. So boring. And that's why Like, that's boring.
Joel: Absolutely, it is. And I mean, even Anne was bored with it, honestly. And there are there are aspects guess there are aspects of Louis as played in the later novels that sort of that you can see and trying to figure out, well, where what do I do with this character that's like a version of me I've discarded or moved past, you know. And I left him there but I didn't stay there. I I floured and blossomed into the start, actually. So how what do we do with that? You know? It's it it it is
Ashley: in there. It's unfair.
Ashley: As a I feel like it's unfair as a writer to have left him there, to not have allowed him to grow and develop and change the way that she did, which she I mean, obviously, that's the way the character goes. I mean, even even within, you know, MIMNOC, which we just read, Louie is very, like, concerned for L'Estat and, like, and, like, is one of the people leading the action of the storyline there. I mean, we we see him change. We see him grow, but I think in in, like, popular culture representations of his character have always been this like, whoa, what was me?
Joel: He's just sad, Brad Pitt. Yeah. Yeah. Because he can't eat a doughnut. Or a or a Huggies.
Ashley: Bless him.
Joel: I loved okay. So we've talked about Jacob's accent already, but the line that I thought was probably the best from him. He's sitting in the car. He's pulled he's pulled up to the brothel for the first time to go see Lily. And he's narrating himself. He says my business and my raised religion were at odds and the latencies within me. Well, I beat those back with a lie I told myself. Oh. That he's so he's so wonderful there. But him telling the story is so good too. And the fact that Rollins is then able to weave in a lot of Anne's own language, Yeah. Is so delicious for book fans. And I've I've heard a few people call it out, oh, you can really tell the difference between when Rollins Wright and when Anne was. I listen. Anne's very flowery. Rowland writes with a more modern tongue. It's absolutely true, but I think they suit each other very well. I agree. And I'm I'm very pleased with this sort of balance as we go back and forth.
Ashley: Yeah. It feels the language feels write on, especially if you've read other other books of Anne's. If you've read you know, the Mayfair witch books at all or or any of the the beauty books, you know? Like, this still feels very much like Anne to me.
Joel: I agree. I agree a hundred percent. Alright. Let's talk about Sam. Sam Reid, Ezla Stott. First of all, his introduction is so excellent. We see him from behind, which I think is a direct reference to the ninety four movie. I believe that there's that same shot of of Tom Cruises L'Estat from behind in the flowing cloak. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. There are a couple of those by the way in this episode that I think are direct references to the ninety four film, which I think is cool. Obviously, this fandom I mean, the ninety four film is well regarded. Lots of people like that. Lots of people like the Queen of the damned movie as well, but way more people, like, the ninety four interview with the Vampire movie from Neil Jordan. But that one in particular, I thought was great. But then the introduction at the brothel itself, the conversation where he comes in and out of French, his excitement that he makes sure to serve the musicians because they're always forgotten. Oh, I thought that was a really cool -- Beautiful. -- thought that was a really cool moment. Here's something that I read in a thread, I think, yesterday on Twitter. So L'Estat in the books is about twenty years old when he's turned. And in Anne Rice's novels, the age you are when you are turned to a vampire is sort of very integral to your personality moving throughout the centuries. The vampires are largely unchanged. They get wiser and more powerful, perhaps. But their personalities stay very similar. If you're a childish, reckless, rebellious vampire, you're probably gonna be that even when you're two thousand years old.
Ashley: Absolutely. Let's start.
Joel: So so L'Estat, for instance, was sort of made as a child still. He's he's still just a boy. He's not his brain's not fully formed. So he's maybe never Right. So he's maybe never gonna make the right decisions. Well, in this TV series, we don't know yet what age he's supposed to be when he was turned, but I think it's pretty clear that he's gonna be at least about the same age as Louis. Louis calls himself out he was thirty three years old when he became a vampire. So I think we're probably gonna get Lastat at thirty to thirty five. I think they're probably gonna call him thirty to make it a little bit younger. But the point is he should he should be a man. The thread that I was reading made the suggestion, what if they're going to sort of give us that same rebellious, reckless attitude through a personality trait, a a a neuro divergence. Maybe the stats on the spectrum.
Joel: And they specifically called out the opening comment that he makes to Louis. Is it hurtful on purpose? Or is it obtuse of Listat? Is he just clueless when he said, Louis Louis asks him, this is a mighty fine table. How did you manage to get it? AND LASTAT DOESN'T ANSWER SAYS HOW DID YOU MANAGED TO GET IN THE FRONT DOOR, REreferencing HIS RACE. Reporter: LATER, Listat charges him at the funeral procession, and he says your brother longed for the paving stone. Lastat does not mean that to be harmful. He's coming to aid Louis -- Right. -- to make him feel better. He just doesn't understand how worthless that is as a sav on his grief.
Joel: don't I mean, I don't know where the writers are coming from this. I haven't read it in any interviews yet, but I read that thread and I thought, boy, it sure feels like Sam's playing it that way a little bit, and I love honestly, I think it suits the character of LaSadden is changed perhaps to his age, still maintains the character as we know it, and it gives it more reasoning and more grounding, and more humanity instead of just callousness.
Ashley: Yeah. No. I think that's that's a really cool point. And again, like I said, something now that it's been pointed out something I'll totally watch for. To me, it's just that edge of him that that enter that character that's always been there where he's like, it's that awareness of how he's everything is forever. So, like, what -- Mhmm. -- what is this? What is your brother dying? When when, you know, we're about you're gonna live forever by that time we're done with this. You know? So Of course. Yeah. I mean, he met the payment. That's a bummer, but he wanted it. So call it a good day and get on with you know.
Joel: Well and there is absolutely.
Ashley: But I like the idea of that being softer. That that
Joel: Well, and not not even softer necessarily, but there's a reason. Right? And it doesn't make it knowing that knowing that even with the modern context of, you know, neuropsychology, etcetera, etcetera, that doesn't make it any easier to live with. Right? You still it's still a problem in an interpersonal relationship. You just have to, you you know, it's it's something that explains it instead of it just being about cruelness or or callousness. And I don't Lestat has pictured in the books, particularly the later ones where he's writing them. I don't think he is callous or cruel. I I think he can be obtuse sometimes, and he doesn't understand, you know, he's like He's like a giant. He doesn't know his own strength, you know, a lot of times. He doesn't know Right.
Ashley: I think it's more yeah. It's more of a matter of his perspective. Like, his perspective is not is this, you know, endlessness. So something seems small to him that aren't small to a mere mortal. You know what I mean? Well,
Joel: and even more so in this series, right, where he's already a hundred and fifty years old, and he's already I mean, he had he had met Marius at this point and Akasha and Inkel already in the in the books as well, but we didn't know that. We don't we're not colored with that part of the story. We're seeing it, I think, a bit. Already in his eyes here. The joke on Twitter is that L'Estat has changed his name to Sam Reid, and we we're all just pretending that we haven't noticed I gotta tell you, he is so perfect in this. We'd already talked about he had won me over with the interviews and things, but he is so so perfect in this role.
Ashley: He's so perfect in this role. He is a hundred percent perfect. I I don't know that I've ever It's been a minute since I've seen casting that dropped my jaw, you know. And I didn't really care about it. I haven't really seen him anything he's really not on my radar at all. And so I
Joel: hadn't seen him in anything either.
Ashley: When he opened his mouth, it started acting, I was like, holy shit. That's just the stat. You know, that's our gut. Yeah. That's our gut. Yeah. You know, and that's Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait. I'm so like, I I'm so excited for the rest of the series. You guys oh, he's so perfect that casting us point on and he's not gonna because they cast, you know, people that are what these guys are in their wet thirties, probably.
Joel: I did gotta both be in their early thirties. Yeah.
Ashley: Yeah. And and so we are not gonna have the awkwardness of watching these guys get older. They're not it's a problem you run too if you cast a twenty year old. You know? By the time if this runs, you know, ten years, you know, you go from twenty to thirty. That's a lot of physical change in a person. But I don't feel like you change as much in your you know, thirties to forties in that, you know. So we can watch a comfortable time passed of time with these actors and it not ever be awkward. Or ever us have to suspend our disbelief to such a weird degree that they're still the same age they were when we started.
Joel: Strongly strongly agree, strongly agree. Let's talk briefly here about vampire powers. I know this is something that a lot of people are gonna have issues or questions about. First and foremost, and I always forget this. Lastat doesn't actually have the power to fly until Queen of the damned -- Yeah. -- and enough -- Yes. -- he floats briefly with Marius after drinking from Akasha the first time in the vampire lestad. So that would have been previous to the the events of interview with the vampire. But he doesn't really control it, and he doesn't call it flight. No.
Ashley: It's more like he He actually
Joel: gets the flight right exactly. Or or really, like, maybe even Mary is using telekinesis maybe to to help him guide down at that point. It's sort of unclear. He's in that, like, drunken stooper after drinking from Akasha the first time too. But he gets the flight gift once he, you know, sort of, becomes her companion in Queen of the damned. I don't have a problem with it in this episode. There's one scene where they levitate. Obviously, during the the sex scene, you've seen it already in the trailers or or the clips on Twitter. I guarantee you've seen this. What the my favorite meme is, what kind of interview is this? And it's just two of them, like, wrapped around each other floating. It's the good kind of interview, baby. So so there's that levitation in the sex scene. First of all, I think is a direct reference again to the ninety four movie, the very first time Lestat Bites Louis, they fly up into the air. Absolutely. And I think that's just about in the movie, we we talked about it when we reviewed the movie. I don't really think Lestat has the power of flight there. I think that is an a sort of visual representation of
Ashley: the moment of ecstasy. Yeah.
Joel: This moment of undescribable ecstasy.
Joel: I think that's what that is. And I think the levitation here is almost that as well. However, I don't think there's anything wrong in as described in the story of even saying yes, they actually levitated. Louis describes it as L'Estat took the little drink, which is very difficult for a for a vampire to do. You know, it's takes in a massive amount of wheel power. But Lestat is literally putting on a psychic show for Louis to woo him as directly and aggressively as he knows how to do. And at this point, we've already L'Estat's a hundred and fifty year old vampire. He's been around the block. A few times friend, he's already fought our mind at this point and and broken up the coven He's met the creator of all vampires, you know, and wooed her. This is a dude who's been some places. So I don't have a problem with in a moment of you know, a swell of power. Maybe you do come off the ground a little bit. And that's, again, that's more about telekinesis than it is anything else. Right? You just sort of floating because it's a a you know, it's like you're flexing. Yeah. You're flexing.
Ashley: To me, it's such a small thing. It's to me, it's such a small thing. To care that much about. It's it's just a small thing to, like, fixate on and get so annoyed by. Like, I just can't I can't put that energy into it. Like, I just absolutely cannot put that energy into, like, he's not supposed to fly yet. Well, he's not really flying. Let's just watch the vampire show you guys. It's just fucking vampire. How
Joel: can you look at how can you look at Sam Reed's ass and go, why is he flying though? I mean, just be glad you're getting Sam Reed's ass. There he's flying so that we can see all of his ass and legs. That's why he's flying.
Ashley: I think what something that fans have had a little bit more of a beef with that I get a little bit more, but also I feel like part of it's a spectacle that Lestat's putting on for Louis is the blood when it kills the priest?
Joel: Yes. There's like a massive amount of blood blowing. Yeah.
Ashley: And and and it is true. Like, our vampires are pretty tidy for the most part, but they're having times that they get bloodlusty you guys. We just talked about the part in Bembroke. So, like, there are times our vampires get bloodlusty and get a little pushy.
Joel: Well, and also I think the the ideas displayed in the novels where they never spill a drop list that sort of lays it out like that a few times. I think that is something that just cannot work properly in a visual medium. Right. That works fine in your mind. But in a in a visual medium, if we heard him going Yeah. And there's never any blood on screen. Like, it's gonna be it's a very strange It's a very that's a that's a strange thing.
Ashley: Yeah. You have to see it's a freaking vampire show. You gotta see blood you guys. But I also see
Joel: I think you're right though. L'Estat was putting on a show.
Ashley: Oh, such a spec difficult there. Like, ripped the guy out of the out of the professional Lord. I loved it. That was wild.
Joel: So what about the the other thing that I've heard people have an issue with as far as vampire powers is the the seemingly like time freeze at the poker table. Early in their courting before Louise before Lisott's really won him overall. They're at the poker table, and he seems to freeze time for everyone else while he and Louis continue to converse. I don't think that's what happened at all, though, effectively. I think, L'Estat stole the card and gave it to Louis because he moves incredibly fast. Right? And can do that without anyone noticing. And then the second thing that happened was he spellbound every I do think he spellbound everyone at the table because Anderson in particular, like, holds his the bridge of his nose and shakes his head as he's coming out of it. I think they were all sort of under a spell. But I think that's all basically mind guess. Is speaking to Louis telepathically and entrancing him in that moment to make it feel as if the poker chips are still in mid air and everybody is not breathing and their eyes are glazed over, etcetera, etcetera.
Ashley: Right. And I think
Joel: that's a combination of showing us just with visual representation of the spell gift.
Ashley: I I agree with that a hundred percent. I think that there's so much of what see what's gonna see like, oh, the Empire Magic is actually, like, stuff we already know that he could do. We're just seeing the a physical representation of it that our minds can wrap around. You know, like,
Joel: I think
Ashley: that that's definitely more of the direction. It's going, plus, I love the idea of him talking to Louis you know, with the mind gift now because he's not going to be able to later and to lose that connection, to show that having that connection and then to lose that connection, I think makes that a more powerful thing.
Joel: I won I so hope. First of all, I hope they maintain that. Please, please, please. Makers and their and their mickeys cannot speak to each other -- Yeah. -- telepathically. That's that is something I think that does matter. Yeah.
Ashley: Other when you need each other sometimes. Like, that's
Joel: Yes. Exactly. You've got to use the broader network.
Ashley: Yeah. It creates fear intention amongst them. When they're trying to get to each other, like, that's I think that's really important because that that's something that's true across across all of these books. When we talk about Pandora and her relationship with Marius. Good god. You know, those two trying to get back to each other, sometimes it's just gut rinsing. Yes.
Joel: Yes. Alright. So we agreed on that. I hope they're gonna deal with that in the second episode that we will see tonight as we record this. Oh, god. This is such an amazing thing.
Ashley: I know.
Joel: Right. Let's let's move on a little bit here. I wanna talk about I wanna talk about Paul for a second.
Joel: I did not expect to be so moved by Paul's story. Here. I we had talked about we were gonna see Paul clearly the religious aspect and sort of fervor was going to be part of the story that was clear from the trailers. I was so moved both by Paul's general character arc, and then specifically, the resolution of it, the way that that's now going to play into the character of Louis -- Right. -- and mark him so completely in his immortal journey. Paul was so well done. I I'm gonna pull up the actor's name here because I don't know it
Joel: the bat. Yeah. But he was just fantastic.
Ashley: Okay. And again, it's that, you know, putting it into a context that we can understand, putting it into a more a more modern context as far as, like, you know, a religious kind of hysteria sort of thing. That's not something we necessarily connect to when we're talking about somebody in the eighteen hundreds speaking that way. You know what? Just to me, it's so much more again, like I said, it's amping us, amping up the importance of everything by mid urgency. It's creating more
Joel: So here's what occurred to me. I didn't think of this on the first watch. The second watch though, I did think. I was like, oh, what do we gain by what do we gain by changing Louis? And therefore Paul and the Pointal Black family to black characters. And by moving this series up, to the nineteen tens. The number one thing that we saw already in this episode that we gained was the dance scene with Paul and Louie at the web. And I wouldn't trade it for the world. First and foremost, the two of them, if this was seven end of the seventeen hundreds, the two of them would not have danced to their daughter's wedding or their sisters wedding like that. And secondly, if they weren't black, they wouldn't have danced they wouldn't have done like a jazz tap thing. They wouldn't have been, you know, corner dancing boys as kids. So that's what we gained. Right here in this episode, and that was such a beautiful scene, the shorthand that was accomplished in that scene to establish what these guys have done for each other, what they've been through with each other. How they feel about one another, the love, the admiration that they have, the trust that they have with one another. And we got the scene that was a great scene of them walking together to the church in the morning, earlier in the episode. That's a really lovely scene too. But that dance scene to me is an example of what you gain by changing the character of of Louis ever so slightly. It's really not that big a shift. Honestly, when you think about it. He still owned the plantate the family still owned the plantate. This
Ashley: is this is next
Joel: Louis still subjugates human bodies. Yeah. Louis still subjugates human bodies for a living. Right? Like that is he makes his money off the back of other humans selling themselves. That's what he does in this series. So and he knows it and he suffers for it morally. That that happens there at the end when he's in the the confession. That's he's not just sad about L'Estat. He realizes, I I I smile and I tell myself I'm giving him a roof and a meal and dollars in their pocket, but I know who I am. I'm the big man in the big house who's stuck cotton in my ear, so I can't hear their cries. Oh, goodness. Anyway, I was so I loved Paul. I loved Paul. And you're gonna be able to to show me just a second of pall on a balcony or or that dance sequence or the two of them touching each other on the shoulder they walk down the street together, and I'm gonna cry for years to come now. I think and I think that's gonna be a point of reference for Louis as well. Yeah. He care about that. Failed his brother.
Ashley: And it made me care about that way more than I did. Like, in in the book, Like, I just didn't connect to that
Joel: guy. Absolutely. I
Ashley: didn't really care. I was just like, man, you know, like, let's get on with the story. Whereas with this, I'm like, oh, damn. You know, we really get to see how this how this is, you know, rip is gonna rip our guide to shreds. You know,
Joel: I speaking okay. So Paul is reference here, so I'm gonna include this here. L'Estat makes reference in the church at the end. He tells Louie that he's not the devil, that he only brings death to those deserving. Now, this is after he'd already killed the one priest and right before he goes and smashes the other one's head in. However however, it occurred to me I made a joke on Twitter. Somebody was like, what what did that other priest do? Poor priest. He slipped on some he's his shoes queued, and now I got his face smashed in. I said, you watch episode two, Lestat is gonna tell Louie that he already had that priest marked for death because he was a pedophile or some such. It occurred to me on my second rewatch. When Paul goes in to confess, that priest, the priest that gets punched in the face, that priest goes in to take confession, and Paul won't have it. Says, no, I won't father Matthias. Thank you. And it sends the priest out. And in the books, it's very clear that Paul is touched in some way. Paul -- Yes. -- knows the danger that's coming with the stat to his family. And, you know, feels this sense of foreboding for Louis and is trying to tell him, we gotta sell everything and get out. We gotta give it all to the church and get out brother. And Louis won't have it. Well, here we don't really get a sense that that Paul might be in tune, so to speak, with the universe. Just that he's mentally ill is what we really get. However, L'Estat does speak to him. You know, he says L'Estat told me he was here to steal souls. Anyway, it's interesting to think perhaps we might get ahead of that as we go. Probably those priests will never be mentioned again. They'll just burn the whole church down and That'll be the end of it. But I might be overthinking it. It was an interesting moment there. Hey, here's something else that I didn't notice until the second watch. Did you notice Ray Don Chung as Louis mother?
Ashley: Yes. Yeah.
Joel: She's so good too.
Ashley: She's amazing. I loved her in the eighties. She was in this oh, was it the oh, what was it? It was, like, a horror compilation. Tells was it telling from the dark side that she was, like, Oh, a gargoyle. That was so crazy. I love her. I love her.
Joel: Oh, really? I don't remember that one. Oh
Ashley: my god. It's this so never mind. This is just the wrong podcast for this. But it's not like about start a podcast about that one part of that horror anthology show. She's so good. I just I've always loved her. I've loved her. And someone haven't seen in forever.
Joel: No. Right? She has she hasn't had a a ton of high profile stuff. But however, she's on a bit of a renaissance. She's got a a new movie that, like, just came out, and then she was doing press for that. And leaning forward to you. And by the way, I'm playing Louis' mother in in the suit. I think we're gonna see some more of her as the series goes on. I I think Grace especially is gonna be a character that comes up over the next several episodes. And I I think it's likely that we'll see Momo Delac as well. But she was so wonderful in the scene after Paul's death. Yes. In the house, especially, was the one to me where she really shown. And then shying him away at the grave too. Mama, can I walk you home? No. Thank you. Levy, do you mind? Oh my god. Oh my god. Daggards to my heart. And you know now, I mean, it makes so much sense why one of our group on Facebook made reference to the fact that Luis sort of like the tragedy to his transformations really short here. Whereas in the book that takes a while, he sort of lives lives in anguish and sadness for a while and despair in the movie too. He's been gambling and wasting his life away for a while trying to find death. Compact to timeline makes a lot of sense to me though here because you see the depth of of despair that he's in. He loses his brother. He feels like he did it in some way. His mother tells him so. Then the the one bit of solace he has left as Lily, who is dead. Yep. He's left all alone. List that is all he has. And he still doesn't take him. He runs away from L'Estat to the church first, but you understand why he is so vulnerable and when willing to make the leap with list out at the end of this episode, I think the way that they line it up. And Rayon Chong is a huge part of that.
Ashley: Yeah. I think amping up the intensity of all of those when when emotions are so after a loss are so raw, anyway and everybody breathes differently and you don't always have the conversations that you should have when your heart is hurting like that. And and how dangerous that can be, you know. And it really does set it up so beautifully and kind of streamlines the streamline the timeline just makes it, like I said, more important, more urgent, more in the moment.
Joel: Man, the one other thing that having Paul be such a big fixture in this season does for us It gives us the great conversation with L'Estat at the dinner table. Paul asked, first of all, Paul asked, what is the nature of your relationship with my brother? Yes, miss your Della Court. Delian Court. But also, he follows it up with do you Are you in Christ one? Are you one with Christ? And the stat answers First of all, I love how he dismisses his his, you know, the mother and and Louis both say, that's enough of that. Leave it alone. And Lesta says, no, no, no, the birds speak for him. I love that. List dad just deals with it. Yep. Okay. Birds are speaking in his head. I get it. I get it. I I know middle of us. That's fine. List that story there about the monastery. First of all, it's not something I think that he shares with Louis in the books until much, much, much, much, later. So this is a list at who is more revealing of himself.
Joel: And less guarded than we've seen previously. And I think that's lovely. But when his eyes mixed up as he says, my father, a vulgar man, it was too much for me. We talked last last not last episode, a couple of episodes ago during the MIMNOC about abusive father, child
Joel: This is that, absolutely. And I'm assuming we're going to see more of it eventually as we see less that story. But the look in his eyes when he talks about his father turning him against god and stealing his education or hopes of it. Anyway. It seems like L'Estat in this universe got a little bit more time at the monastery perhaps before that was ended. It seems he read quite a bit more than he did in the books. But that's alright. I love that part too because what we have here is Elastat who has glimpsed freedom and and, you know, openness and then was denied it, and then forced his way out, and then was captured and made of Empire by Magnus, and then forced his way out to freedom and openness again. You know? And that is a cool journey that I'm excited to go on with him. And we got a glimpse of it in, like, one scene -- Right. -- because of two great performances between Paul and Lestat.
Ashley: Yeah. Like, in in in, like, two lines sets up that whole that whole emotional journey that that he went on with his father. I just yeah. It's he's Sam reads something else, you know, like, I'm I'm really impressed. I'm really impressed with, like, either the directing was really good or the understanding of the subtext is really good. Or a combination of all of that and awareness of the greater world that exists and and the next book that's coming up. Like, I'm not sure if it's one or a combination of those things, but whatever it is, I'm very grateful that it's happening because it does seem like these actors are, number one, nailing it. But number two, really taking the time to explore these characters so they're not just like, pretty pretty vampires, you know?
Joel: Holy moly. I just got tagged in a Twitter post, the House of Blues is hosting the Endless Night New Orleans Vampire Ball October twenty ninth twenty twenty two.
Joel: Endless night dot com. I'm gonna put I'm gonna put the we'll put the link of the show notes, obviously. Endless night dot
Joel: Yeah. It's an official vampire ball. It's happening. It's happening. Is happening this year even. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make it. I think I'm I think I'm in DC on the twenty ninth, but oh my god. That's that's outstanding regardless.
Ashley: Oh my god. I always Wow. To go to one of those because Anne with
Joel: Will and we
Ashley: like, four
Joel: Yes. She threw them several times.
Ashley: They were and and this is when I was in high school, and it just seemed like, oh my god, put it on a pretty dress, like, dress up like a vampire and go hang out with a bunch of vampire nerds in New Orleans. Please Jesus. That sounds amazing.
Joel: Right? Yeah. Okay. So there'll be there'll be details for that. I'm sure we'll hear more about it as the month goes on, but I I just saw that and I had to share it. I wanna talk about Lily for a minute here. Minor character, I think, in the overall story of this thing, but the one, I would say, is sort of detraction for me in this first episode. She's a beautiful lovely character I mean, both physically beautiful, but also lovely in in personality, it seems to. Toss aside too swiftly for me. The one big mistake of episode one, I would say. I think you could have played with Louis trying not to turn her, but also wanting to to free her from the life, which is what L'Estat feels like he's done here. Right? He's freed from the shackles of being a black man. He's now a vampire. L'Estat doesn't understand being a vampire won't change the fact that Louis and Blackman. Right. And I think that's gonna be a big thing for their relationship moving forward. Very, very interesting stuff to be done with with there. But I think we could have had some of that with Lilly too, and we just didn't. You know, some of this there's there's there's a character in the novel, the Feneer Woman, I believe, that helps him escape. That it's sort of hinted at. Is Louie gonna I mean, she understands eventually that their vampires there's sort of a like, is Louie gonna take her, lestat, I think offers it at some point, maybe even anyway, I think Lily could have done could have filled in some of those roles and she could have played a role over the next few scenes. Or the next few episodes at least, and you could have given that character a little bit more color. She is discarded. I feel like, and the episode treats her in much the same way that L'Estat does actually.
Ashley: That's a really good point. I didn't really think about that. I kind of felt like the character served its purpose. Because we're moving on. You know, we're moving into a whole new world now. And No.
Joel: You're absolutely right. Here's my question. Could thermostat have gotten Louie across the line without Lilly?
Ashley: Oh, well, probably.
Joel: I mean, the user is bait -- Yeah. -- very clearly. And yes. No.
Ashley: He would have eventually. I mean, come on. Yes.
Joel: No. I agree with you. I I think eventually, yes. But it is interesting the way that it the way that it happened. And also here there's another moment that is, like, very much an updated image from the ninety four movie. The three of them on the couch together, there is a very similar scene in the ninety four movie. When they end up putting the lady in the coffin. But you think it's gonna be the ninety four movie. And then psych, they put that chick to sleep, and the two dudes are getting it on. They don't. They leave her on the couch.
Ashley: Gotta love it. It's I just I I so much wishful a settlement. I said, I'm like, yay. Thank god. These sexy vampires are getting it.
Joel: So that was the one knock, though, for me, honestly, of the whole episode was the Lilly character. I feel like it would have been nice to see her last a little bit longer and get a little bit more you know, agency, I guess, in the the episode. I
Ashley: just feel like we're we're about some things that's gonna move pretty quick for us. This next episode. And,
Joel: I mean, it's not like we have any lack of characters to meet in this universe. So I guess you gotta get on to the ones that are that are named in the novels, folks. Let's let's get them moving. So I wanna get to a couple of easter eggs here. And interestingly, we mentioned this on a previous episode, I think, but some of the the fans have asked me, are we gonna spoil things that hint at future novels? We've already mentioned a couple, look, big things, the fact that characters exist, you know, the fact that list that goes to heaven and hell. I'm sorry, friends. If you haven't heard that by now, you it's spoiled for you. I'm I'm sorry. But the finer details Sorry.
Ashley: I spoiled the book from nineteen ninety six.
Joel: Yeah. Exactly. Right? But the finer details that you get from reading the novels, the finer details that you'll get from watching this series, we're gonna try hard not to to spoil outright or ahead of time. We as for instance, we haven't told you what's happening next or or where Claudia comes from. Right? We'll get there in a minute. I do though wanna talk now about a a couple of easter eggs. So if you really don't wanna know anything about future happenings, now's the time to go on and bounce out. We we will be wrapping up after this, so don't don't feel like you're gonna miss anything. First Easter egg, to me, Daniel, as he's changing the channels, at the very beginning. He changes from his commercial and he changes, like, two or three channels and he lands for a second on a history channel. And the phrase that the narrator says is can he make his fantasy a reality? I think it's Daniel's desire to be a vampire. I think we're gonna see his relationship with our mind. I think I think part of that relationship has already happened, and I think part of Daniel's excitement to to hop at this interview opportunity is because he and our mind aren't speaking together anymore for whatever reason. And so he's missed his opportunity for Arman to turn him. He feels like at least. Oh, I love that. So I think this is I think this is another chance.
Ashley: So something I stopped myself saying earlier when we were talking about Daniel and Armand, and then you mentioned L'Estat and Louis, L'Estat having the little drink. And that's the shit that our mom was doing to Daniel for forever, like, chackin' with him, messin' him up, you know, like, I I just remember that being such a effed up, like, relationship for a while, the way and it wasn't even really
Joel: It Does it Daniel care does it Daniel care like a vial of his blood? Yes.
Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So and it's so manipulative and so so strange. So I I almost wanna have a better understanding of, like, Arman's like, why? Like, what this was our mom doing to this poor man's, you know, Oh.
Joel: Well, okay. I don't know I don't know how many episodes he's in or if it's just like one scene, etcetera, etcetera. But I did see in the IMDB that there is a young Daniel in this series. So I I think probably we won't see our mind I think we will probably see the end of the interview from the seventies where Louis attacks Daniel
Ashley: do you think we won't get to our mind this season?
Joel: I don't believe that they've cast our mind. I I mean, maybe I'm wrong. There haven't been any announcements.
Ashley: Under the
Joel: That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I think with all of the hubhub and press here at the launch, I think they would be hard pressed to keep it secret. Now it's entirely possible that, like, in the final episode, we either get some sort of hint that young Daniel and Armand had a relationship or we get a hint of Armand as Claudia and and Louis take off to Europe or whatever, I don't know. But it's possible I mean, the MCU keeps things quiet occasionally. Right? Like, we didn't know about Well, there were a handful actually of of, you know, new people released in in post credit sequences in the last year that
Ashley: that happened
Joel: broke before the movie happened or or the TV series happened. So So, you know, it it is possible. I don't I don't know. My guess is that they haven't cast our mind and that it's one of those things that they're literally, like, taking the fandom's as they head towards season two. And I think I think there's still, like, wiggle room to adjust depending upon the reaction to all of this. So that was my first e East Greg for Daniel. Second, though, the jigsaw puzzle that he's doing. He's a it's it's a picture called a painting called the fall of the rebel angels. It's by Peter Bruggled the Elder. It's Michael casting out Lucifer and his followers from heaven. To me, that's, like, pretty heavy references there to, like, Maryus' work. In Arman's general life story. I think, again, they're I I think they're hitting. Yeah. I think I think this day no one knows Arman already, and I think there's stuff there. Alright. So we also get a Gabrielle mention at the dinner table. Yes. L'Estat says my mother she gave me every advantage in life as a young man, a masterful, the means to get to Paris, which she does in the novel, she gives him his his dog, she gives him a rifle, and she also gives him some jewels, I believe. Right? Which is like enough money to get to to get away from the house and get to Paris. I cannot wait to see the portrayal of Gabrielle here. The character of Gabrielle in the books is great. It is Raul and Jones is already hinted at it. It's a fairly incessuous laden relationship. The the the relationship between Gabriel and L'Estat is It is mother and son, but it's it's more than that too. That is Listat's first lover in many ways. That's, you know, Listat's mentor and muse in a lot of ways. And then she, as a character on her own, is so interesting, so independent, so willing to live alone. You know, she literally goes off into the wild and just lives among the animals and the and the trees for years at at a time, you know, waiting
Ashley: the dirt.
Joel: What a exactly. Exactly. What a fascinating character I can't wait to see here?
Ashley: Yeah. Fiercely independent. Does not need the other vampires the same way so many of them seem to need each other. You know, she's just a very different different character, but she's that way in life too. She wants to be that way in life. I think that's one of the reasons why as a vampire, like, those things that you want and those things that you are kind of amplify and I think that that's how you end up with a character's, you know, is fiercely independent and and unlike any of the other vampires as Gabrielle.
Joel: Yes. Yes. Levy. Levy. Levy, the brother-in-law. Last name, I didn't catch it, but I saw it in the credit somewhere at Levy Feneer. Is the brother's name. From the books, of course, to Feneers, are the plantation owners next to Louis plantation. We mostly meet the the the woman Feneer, who's as we mentioned earlier, kind of, is it a love interest perhaps gonna be whatever? Anyway, I think it I think we're gonna get grace who will now be grace for near. Will play a lot of those roles other than the love interest stuff. But I mean, she she I think she's going to discover that the boys are vampires. I think she'll end up covering for their escape at some point perhaps, you know. I I think I think we may get a lot of that from grace. That's
Ashley: a really good trade. Which
Joel: is a neat little connection to the books. They they don't need the premier family overall. And it wouldn't make much sense since we're not implantation country, etcetera, etcetera. But cool way to bring that connection anyway. Alright. Here's the big easter egg though. Nicholas. We have a Nicholas mission.
Ashley: We do.
Joel: So as soon as the music box started playing, I thought I guarantee you that's Nikki's song. And I didn't expect him to actually say it out loud, but then he's I mean, they don't say his name just as they don't say Gabrielle's. Right. Listat says the the Lilly asks what's that song is playing? And Listat says, oh, do you like it? I wrote it I composed it for a beautiful violinist I knew. No. For a young violinist, I knew, a beautiful and sensitive man. I we have mentioned before that I think it would be interesting if they double cast Louis and Nicholas. In the books, it references several times that they're all but identical.
Ashley: would be interesting. I
Joel: don't think they're gonna do it. I think it would confuse. I would you know, a lot of super mainstream audiences. Right? The numbers of the millions of people that you wanna watch a thing like this or watch a game of Thrones, I I don't think I don't think the creators are gonna do that. Also, I don't Jacob Anderson may not wanna double cast either. He may wanna focus on the one role. But I think the relationship with Louis is so clearly tied to his relationship with Nicholas. Oh, wow. And the fact that we've already got it referenced here and that already exists, and the show runners are showing us, yes, hey, we're gonna get there. We're
Ashley: not gonna ignore it.
Joel: I'm so excited. It just it just made my day. And also, there again, a layer to this work of art that we can't get without an adaptation into film or TV. Something like Nicholas' song existing. It will it will live now. Right? That'll be on a soundtrack somewhere. You and I can load up Spotify and listen to Nicholas' song anytime we want to. Right. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah. And cry and cry and cry and cry. Exactly. Anyway, I want all of these things to happen. I I want at this point, I want rockstar listed. Now again, I'm I'm back on board. Okay. I do. Listen. Sam Reid is a singer. He's a he's a music theater kid. I watched him sing something on a Australian Morning Show. He's not like, you know, he doesn't have an album like Jacob Anderson does. That's something I didn't know either. Jacob Anderson is an actual musician. He has, like, albums, multiple albums out there. What? Raleigh, Ritchie, I think, is what he goes by as a singer. Yeah. No. Jacob Anderson's really as a a matter of fact, apparently, Louis sings at some point this season, at least once a little bit. Excellent. So I I'm I'm in now. I want it. I don't I don't I want it now. And I'm super excited to watch the themes of this show develop. You know, what is what is Listat's theme? And how does that sort of musical motif appear from time to time? Have we already gotten hit at what Gabriel's theme is? For instance, you know, do we where what does Marriott sound like? What I wanna I wanna play them like it's Peter in the wolves, you know?
Ashley: Yeah. You and I are such are such lovers of music. I think that both of us are really excited to to hear how the how this, you know, soundtrack and underscoring kind of develops too.
Joel: Oh, here's another Here's another easter egg that I didn't mention earlier. Mister Anderson, that I like so much, the the competition, the guy who runs the other brothel. He's a real historical figure. And Jelly Roll Morton is playing at the downstairs at the brothel when they come. He, of course, is a historical figure, wouldn't have been there in nineteen ten apparently at a brothel probably, but did play in brothels earlier in his career nineteen o four, nineteen o five. He might have shown up there. So some cool stuff as far as world building goes. They they threw some real people in there.
Ashley: Love it. Love it. Love it. Well, it makes like it's like, hey, look, these are some reasons why we changed the time period because we can include some of this sort of historical this historical context. I mean, I don't think any of us can really relate to a New Orleans and, you know, that doesn't look like a New Orleans any of us remember or recognize, you know. So seeing --
Joel: Right. Exactly. --
Ashley: beautiful, city in this time period is just thank you.
Joel: Well, let's look forward ever so slightly because we have in a season two announcement, by the way, we've already been renewed for season two. How exciting is that? But in the background, so there's a big image two on the announcement. In the background of that image though is, hey, sort of, like, hazed out, phased out map of Europe. They're going to Europe for season two. And it occurs to me, Ashley, how many years will have passed between Louise turning? And Louis and Claudia's exit to Europe. Yeah. Are we gonna go to Europe during World War two?
Ashley: Shut up. That'd be crazy.
Joel: I mean, we might. Right? Like, we might be there at the beginnings of or at least during the build up of nazism. Our vampires could eat a bunch of nazis and not feel bad about it, particularly if they're hanging out in Paris. I mean, let's talk about how much fun would it be to watch the the the Theatroop of AMPYER eat a crowd full of Nazis every night?
Ashley: God, I would I would love it. Oh.
Joel: Right? I'm saying there's some fun things to play with there. I don't know that that's what they're gonna do, but you think about the family's gotta be together twenty, thirty years at least. I think -- Yeah. -- I think that only makes sense because you have you have to make it a time period where the strain on Claudia becomes truly breaking of of like her development without Louie and L'Estad understanding that development. No.
Ashley: At one point in the in in the behind the scenes episode we got, she said, that she was in her thirties. I'm thirty six or something like that. I'm you know, and so we like I know that it has to be enough that's enough time to pass that she is beyond ready to be an actual woman and not a fourteen year old.
Joel: Right. Right. So, yeah, you take it from nineteen ten, you add thirty years, nineteen forty. A lot of cool shit's happening in Europe at that time is all I'm saying. I mean, not not cool. A lot of interesting shit is happening in Europe. Let's say it like that.
Ashley: Like there's there's yeah. There's a lot of history they can play with. I love it. Didn't even think about that.
Joel: That would I didn't think about it either until the season two announcement, and then I was like, Moving up to nineteen ten might have been a really, really great idea. They've also announced that one of the locations that we're gonna see in season two is Bulgaria. We're gonna see our Eastern European zombie vampires. We're gonna see I'm telling you they're gonna do it we're gonna we're gonna see the Eastern European zombie vampires from the from the novel. So, like, so much cool stuff to come. This is gonna be fantastic. What an amazing journey. Here's what we're gonna do. We think based on the response on our Facebook group and and you and me discussing it, Ashley, I believe AMC Plus is gonna drop these episodes one week in advance on the streaming service the entire season. We're gonna get season episode two tonight. I believe we're gonna get episode three next week and so forth and so on. That's a week ahead of cable. However, if that is true, then Ashley and I are gonna continue to put out these episodes basically as fast as we can. We'll watch episode two tonight, tomorrow morning, sometime Sunday. We'll try to record that one and get it out for you late Sunday night, and then the same thing next week and and moving on. That means if you're watching on cable, You're probably gonna stay a week behind us. I'm sorry about that. I think it's gonna work out best for everybody. Please give me your feedback though. If there's a huge group of you that are on cable and prefer us to stay behind, let us know and we'll we'll see what we need to do and we'll try to do what's best for the biggest group of folks. Regardless though, thank you for your feedback. Thank you for listening. Thank you for joining the Facebook group and hanging out with us and talking to us. It's so much fun to have some sounding boards to enjoy this show with. Right, Ashley?
Ashley: Yes. It absolutely is. And, like, I mean, we're both really positive people that are super excited, but don't be afraid to, like, air your grievances if there's things you don't like. Tell us, we wanna be able to talk about those. And especially since we're we tend to be more inclined to be like, Yes. Yes. We definitely don't
Joel: Things like changes from the books. Yeah. Changes from the books. The straight washing we we mentioned the Daniel stuff earlier. That stuff that didn't occur to me the first time, you said it hadn't really bothered you either. That's something it's our bias is showing. Right? So we want everybody to let us know when you hear that stuff. We'd love to hear it as well. Thank you so much for watching this. Thank you so much for doing this AMC. It's so so good. I can't wait for episode two. Ashley, you got anything before we say goodbye?
Ashley: No. No. Just thanks thanks for hanging out. Thanks for listening with us. Thanks for watching with us. And I'm excited for what's next.
Joel: Alright. Go watch episode two. We'll talk to you soon. Until then, we've been your hosts. Ashley
Joel: Eider. And I'm Joel Sharpton. And this is the Articulate Coveen.
Joel: Thanks for listening to the Articulate Coveen. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes. Or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, or at articulate coveben dot com, and share us with your And Rise loving friends.