VERY Specific Search Terms - Ashley and Joel Discuss “The Dark Place” S1E2 of The Mayfair Witches on AMC and AMC+

VERY Specific Search Terms - Ashley and Joel Discuss “The Dark Place” S1E2 of The Mayfair Witches on AMC and AMC+

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to the Articulate Cove and We're your hosts. I'm Joel.

Ashley: I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the Articulate Cove and Ashley, have you ever watched a show and thought to yourself, this might be better if I was completely unfamiliar with everything about it?

Ashley: Oh, yes, I have. Is that how you're feeling about this so far?

Joel: I

Ashley: can totally understand that. What

Joel: about the Mayfair right now?

Ashley: I could totally understand that. I can understand feeling that way for sure.

Joel: I think special so I've got I've got some issues with the special effects. In particular, last year's special effects to me are reading a little cheaper than they need to be. You could play with shadow and light. You could play with not seeing the shark, so to speak. And

Ashley: -- Right. --

Joel: more of the less that you have budgetarily speaking. But that aside, I think this is going to be a pretty good TV show. And actually, I shared a link to the Facebook group recently this has broken the records that interviews set for the most streamed show on AMC Plus for instance. I think this has put the potential for an even bigger audience than interview had. We've already talked about that. This may be a quote unquote more mainstream show. However, the fact that I know the source material as well as I do and love, you know, some of these characters as they especially as they crossover into a series that you and I prefer, the the vampire chronicles, it's kind of infuriating, honestly, the ways in which this has clearly deviated And, like, in particular, I I want us to talk a lot this episode about Annebeth Gish. She's thin she's fantastic. We didn't mention her,

Ashley: but we didn't have a lot of

Joel: her. Raised her. And and we are fans of her work. But I I love her here too, and it's clear the creators of the show do as well I don't understand what they're doing with it. We're gonna dive into this whole thing. In case you're new here, let's do say up top before we dive too deep. We did this last week too. We are the ossicular cabin with the original unofficial fan podcast and community for interview of the Vampire from An Rise and An Rise's immortal universe has brought to us by AMC and AMC Plus. We've been covering the books for years. We've been covering the TV series since they first announced that they were working on one. We've covered a couple of the vampire movies that they've made already based on the chronicles, and we're gonna keep covering the series from AMC as they keep coming out. Even when maybe we're not exactly sure what they're doing. Overall, what'd you think of this episode, Ashley?

Ashley: Joel, I'm into it. I've really I'm into it. I I I'm with you on, like, what the hell are we doing? Why are we doing it quite this way? But again, I'm just I'm trying to really just trust the process the way we did with with interview. And I I was like, I trust them. I trust the changes they've made. I trust it. So I'm gonna roll with it, and I'm I'm really, really trying to keep that attitude with this. I do think it's an an interesting way to kind of to lure Rowan home. And it's kind of it it kind of gives it a different sort of twist to it because it's like, She's being she's being manipulated and pulled home. And and it feels more like last year has has to do with it, to me. And I think that kind of kind of cements how I feel about about last year and and and how Everyone anyone that thinks that they can be in control of him is upon. You know you're not you're you're absolutely wrong. There's no way you can you can stay in control of this this this creature, this this, you know, the spirit. And so I I I'm still on board. I'm not I'm not trying to push it away yet. I really thought just some of this some of this journey that we're seeing Rowan go on is is like kind of heartbreaking to me because it's she's so desperate and and desperate to know what's happening to her and and and having her have these sort of increasing experiences that are becoming a little bit more and more frightening are all the things that are kind of working together to drive her to New Orleans since we were try really trying hard to figure out how they were gonna get her there. You know? I feel like it's all a part of that that push in the story, and it kind of gives our guy last year, a little bit more agency too, which I like. Well,

Joel: it's interesting. So in the episode, first of all, let me let's start at the top because you mentioned something last week that I had not noticed. You mentioned the names of the witches appearing in the wallpaper in the intro to the show. And I really watched for it this time. As a matter of fact, on my second viewing, I I went through and paused as they came up. Here's what I was able to see. I saw Charlotte Marie Claudette, Angelique, Peter, Suzanne, Deborah, and then Rowan in that order. Now there were several times where there was, like, a Mayfair that appeared, but the first name was off screen and so you couldn't see who that might be in reference to. And I think a couple of those names appeared twice. But the the interesting thing that I noticed this time it is a family tree. Right? That's what we're seeing here is and is parts of a family tree. Literally, the names are connected and In particular, Marie Claudette and Angelique were on top of each other. You could see the line from one to the other when they appeared. So that's what we're seeing there is the Mayfair family tree. Very cool stuff and how much of that will actually see in the story this season. I also wonder is that going to change from week to week? Or or have we each only seen, you know, some of the names that appear there It'll be interesting if you if you're listening to this and you have seen a pattern or perceived a pattern that we have not seen, please let us know in the comments on the show. But that was right off the top. I

Ashley: do feel like it was the same. I feel like it was the same this week as last. I I feel like I saw all the same things. I mean, I can't be certain, but I feel pretty confident that it was the same as last week.

Joel: Well, a boo on that, but interesting still. And again, based on the flashbacks we got pretty early in this episode. I think we are gonna see a little bit more of the family history this season than you and I speculated last week. Let's hope that that continues. Right off the top from for this episode, I wanna get into Rowan here. Something that was there last week. I just didn't know how hard they were gonna lean into it. This This week they leaned into it hard, Rowan has been given Michael's alcoholism from the novel.

Ashley: Yes. Yes. Yes. It does seem to be definitely her coping mechanism at this point in the story for

Joel: sure. Well, and she's literally drowning all of her life out with alcohol, like continuously day in and day out, early in the day, late in the day, all through and as her life begins to spiral further out of control here too, that is only getting worse. But I do wonder, you know, in the novel, we There's a a period of time anyway where these two characters come together, Rowan and and Michael come together because Rowan effectively takes care of Michael and, like, sobers him up, you know, watches him through the the rehab. I wonder if SIP is gonna play a similar role to Rowan as as we get settled in New Orleans? That

Ashley: would be interesting in an interesting way to kind of force them into some intimacy right off the bat, you know, since we don't have the the built in of the romantic relationship between Rowan and Michael. This gives them an opportunity to develop some intimacy fairly quickly. I think that's an interesting point. I love how she ended up with his phone and that's how she saw these pictures. I really I I loved all of that. She does save his life. That that definitely ties into that it's not in the same way at all as to what happens to Michael in the book. She does, you know, save his life as well. So we're definitely starting to see those those pieces of the characters that we're missing kind of come into play. In in our main characters.

Joel: I didn't even consider that, but you're absolutely right. That is a mirror. I mean, here, Rowan is responsible for I'm being in danger in the first place, whereas with Michael, it's, you know, he's drowning when she when she first meets him. And then they refined each other later after he's, you know, gained this psychic power to touch things and and see things about the the objects or or people that that touch them as well. Man, it's fascinating. But yes, you're absolutely right. It's another way that they're taking the narrative of the novel and twisting it in a way that you wouldn't have expected. And at first does it make a whole lot of sense. But one imagines this is all building towards the specific story that these creators want to tell. And I my my my cautiousness and my sort of melancholy about the the narrative of the book being sort of tossed aside in certain ways. That aside, I am on board for this. Kind of even if they do it really badly, the facts of the matter are this, nobody else is gonna make a mafia which is adaptation Probably ever, but definitely in the next decade or so. So like -- Right. -- as a fan of this property and these characters in this storyline, And in particular, as a fan of the idea of AMC making lots of Anne Rice Stories over the next decade or so, I'm gonna absolutely support this even if I'm not completely on board with their choices. I'll look at it, like, you know, comic books does a great job of this. They just call it Elseworlds. Right?

Ashley: Or Right. Right. Multiverse. Can

Joel: consider that we can consider this exactly. We can consider this that. This is a version of Rowan and the Mayfair which is even if it's not our version a fro it in the wafer which is in the end. So I'm on board. I'm just I'm a little head scratchy as we go. Thank you though for picking up on that sipperian thing. I had not thought about that as a mirror of of Michael's relationship. I wanna mention something that happens in the background here before, actually, they get entangled. There's a radio playing while Rowan's, like, getting up, I I think right at the very beginning of the episode and the or TV, I guess. And the news report says, charred body of a woman was found. And then goes into detail about how our hands were tied. She was doused in gasoline and then lit on fire while she was still alive. This combined with the trailer that we've seen a group of men mostly men at least saying, you know, any woman that consorts with the devil has to be burned. I thought that was a flashback scene that we were gonna get some somewhere in the past. For the Mayfair family, they're gonna give us modern day bad guys, more moral bad guys in this show, I think, which I again, like, that in the books, there's no witch hunters in the books. Right. I don't know how I don't know how that's gonna play out, but boy, they are gonna just as an interview with the vampire in smaller ways, ways that bothered me less as a book fan, they are going to surprise us book fans too. And hopefully, we can keep our fingers crossed till a good story overall. But that that little hint to something that's coming was surprising for me

Joel: as much as anything else that happened in the episode.

Ashley: Yeah. I I I clocked that and I was like, oh, damn. And and I was like, wondering how it was gonna tie in. I didn't even I mean, for some idiotic reason. I did not even remotely tie that to, like, burning witches, but it to it's only Totally probably is exactly that.

Joel: I think what Well and I wouldn't have except for the trailer from from last week. To where they where

Ashley: they showed

Joel: that scene, the guy on stage talking to a crowd about burning women.

Ashley: Yeah. I yeah. I it's gonna be very interesting because they also seem to be actually, at least are the glimpses we're getting of the witches in the past. And and but even with Deirdre calling on Lascher, they seem to intentional as witches as opposed to I feel like in the book, it's much more like we said, last time we were talking about it, it's much more like a psychic psychic powers and things that are much more in line with that sort of thing. It's less, like, potions and incantations. But we are getting and and, you know, in the show a glimpse of that sort of more like what we think of as witches.

Joel: Well, let's dive into this some specifics from the episode here. The first thing that I had in my notes was Rowan hears voices when she uses her power or at least to Foley work would have us believe that anyway. Right? Right. She's using her power. There's whispers. Bispers. And to me, I feel like it is maybe it's just clumsily done. Right? They're trying to show us that this is magic and she's using her abilities and and it's clumsy but maybe I think they're implying something about her powers specifically and the and the family powers in general. I think in this version they're going to be tied much more directly to Lascher himself. Think about the way that Cortland later in the episode. What about him or where is he? I can't

Ashley: remember where

Joel: is he is what he's aware is

Ashley: he to

Joel: deed her after she shows up. The way that he says it, first of all, makes me think he is covetous of the power. Absolutely. And I think we get a glimpse of that on the trailer for next week. But also, it makes me feel like the family is both beholden to and fearful of Lascher in a way that they're not really in the first of all, in the novel all but the witch in the modern day basically don't even believe in Lascher. Like even

Ashley: -- Yeah. -- you

Joel: know, first of all, Cortland's dead. But, you know, peers and, like, Carlada, and Deidre are basically the last two in the family that believe in Lascher and both of them die early in the novel, you know. So like -- Right. It's a whole different set up here, but I do think the show is showing us well, I mean, think later about Anabeth when she kneels and calls to him forcefully with this with this specific chant. Lasher mentions it's too it too. You have to say the words, you know. Right. I think this is going to be some specific magic that for whatever reason has tied him to them and the the jewels specifically even. I think it's gonna be more than just the sort of affection that he has for it in the novel and that that Deborah was covetous of it, you know. I think it's gonna be more like one of the witches at some point cursed him into that jewel or or to be tied to that jewel almost like a like a Genie. That's the way that the show is playing it so far for sure.

Ashley: Yeah. It definitely has much more much more power than than it did and that it was it almost felt a little bit more symbolic in the book in a way, you know, it definitely feels like a lot more a lot more power and importance in in the series so far. I'm still feeling so uncomfortable I'm still feeling so uncomfortable and creeped out by the house. Like, in the house. Oh, yeah. There's just this looming, like, horthing kind of figure it to me. I'm I so they're definitely selling that side of all of it to me very well. You know, setting up the the the the feeling of of the house on the the house in the Garden District is just so It's weird to see the two girls out in front of it having, like, hugging and having fun. I'm like, don't you know there's monsters in there?

Joel: Yeah. It's like at that at that point, you couldn't imagine anyone ever having fun in that house?

Ashley: No. It's horrifying.

Joel: Well, and it'll be interesting to see it. Totally redressed when we do get, like, real twenties flashbacks,

Ashley: you know,

Joel: when it was at its peak.

Ashley: Yeah. The stellar years, you know. That's what I wanna see very much. But yeah. It's such a it's imposing figure in this whole thing too. I really dig because I love a good haunted house story, and I know that that's not necessarily what this is about, but I love that the feeling that this this place has, you know, has this impending sort of zoom feeling to it?

Joel: I wanna go back to San Francisco for a minute here. I wanna talk about the scene she first of all, Rowan is sent by her which by the way, doctor Keck or whatever his name is comes back I could have sworn he was dead. I know there's the offhanded mention about him being in the hospital or whatever, but I was like, well, that's an he's an old white guy. Probably got cholesterol and whatnot. Like, he'll die anyway. Right? No. He's fine. He's back at work already. Hassel's back at work. Yeah. I was I was surprised to see

Ashley: him be a mouthful of your speaker dick again. Yeah. A little little Bush was death, doesn't fix a guy like that. I can tell you that much for sure.

Joel: So but he sends her upstairs to the to the psych. Office. And she's she's being, you know, kind of interrogated about the other death that she had been around recently. The the dickhead that that peed in front of her. And suddenly, the the psychiatrist is also bleeding from the nose and and Rowan realizes she's doing it and rushes out of the room. And then we have this scene in the parking lot and afterwards where the crows have shit all over her car, so she kills a tree full of crows. With her mind. There's, like, three crows dead on the car, but then she picks them up and wraps them up in her jacket. And I I asked Kelly, when we watched it the first time, I asked aloud, I was like, what's she doing with the crows? And then almost immediately, I gave myself an answer. I was like, oh, I bet she's gonna perform like an autopsy on them to make sure that she did it. Right? Like, she's still wondering what's going on with her power and show Right? But instead, she takes them to the beach. She takes them to the beach and burries one of them. Sort of kind of what the fuck was that scene about, Ashley?

Ashley: That was a terrible scene. I really and then to be woken up by the the punks to the beach party. It just was so ridiculous. It was so ridiculous.

Joel: Yeah. To put in between there. That way, in between there, they also squeeze in this fucking scene with the Tallahasco where Ciprian's sitting in the parking lot watching her pass out on the beach from the drug she's No. She's on sleeping drugs. Right? She's already seen him. She takes a sleeping pill and passes out on the beach. He calls New Orleans and he's like, I don't know, man. I think I ought to do something. The guy's like, no. You're there to protect her. Nothing's gonna happen to her. Don't worry about it. And then he just what he fucking bounces while a party rises up around her and she there's a motorcycle doing donut surround her, and Ciprian's nowhere to be seen. I was so disordered making it late, listen, it may be great. Maybe it's great. And maybe I'm just biased. But that scene -- Oh, let's see.

Ashley: -- did not make any sense. Yeah. No. I I I totally agree. The best part of it was her exiting from it when that, like, you see the lantern swinging at different at different times in front of her as she's walking down, like, to walk away. That was the best fucking part of that whole scene was literally the exit from it.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. And that it well, okay. Every now and again, like, okay, we kinda skipped over it earlier. There's the flashback scene where we see which by the way, I wonder if they're gonna make Deborah not Suzanne's daughter, but Deborah B, her sister, the age of those two in that scene together, the fact that they called out the sister at all, and she was involved in that scene. I wondered

Ashley: Right. If

Joel: Deborah won't be the daughter but the sister. Maybe they'll skip a little bit of the incest, I guess. Anyway, that one kinda blew my mind. And I was like, okay, what's what's going on here? And it was beautifully shot. It played out a little funny, and then they never cut back to it. I really thought we're gonna go back to to Suzanne's story, at least at some point, I'm assuming we will in future episodes. But it's got this gorgeous look to it. We've talked about how beautiful, beautifully disgusting this house is, like they do such a good job of dressing this house at the center of this story there are moments of real brilliance in the production of the show, and then there are moments so clumsily handled like that. You're like, Is there is there no I just think about the early Marvel movies, like, not the MCU movies, but even before, where, like, Avi Ahrad is, like, maybe a Spider Man should shoot the webs out of his ass. And there's a Kevin Feige on set to go, actually, Avi. Let me is give you some examples of the from the comics that we could pull that are really cool and do, like, a thing you wanna do, but do it comics accurate. Right? Like, there was a there was a nerd on set that was like, hey, what if we did this instead? We heard from all those nerds about the interview series and the Vampire Chronicles series in the writer's room.

Ashley: Yeah. They were monitoring the crew.

Joel: They were there. Heard them. Where where where are my main fear nerds? Man like there, you couldn't find one or two to just be like, hey, what if we did? I don't know any real book.

Ashley: I don't think they have I don't think they have one. And I do think that that shows, the one hundred percent Dutch show. And I think that that's one of the reasons too. Another thing that I think makes us a little bit more nervous about this as an adaptation is because we are not as familiar with this material. And so I think as a result of that, it kind of makes us we're unsure about why they're making the choices they're making. Like, I feel like I know Louis well enough to know changes to his character that they made. But with with this, I'm I'm I'm not as sure of myself, you know, as as a reader and as as as an audience member and as a person who's developing an opinion, I don't feel like as assured myself when I'm doing the the, like, Oh, reassuring myself if that makes sense.

Joel: No. It absolutely makes sense. That is On the one hand, that's a charitable read of of our our take on the show and what we're doing with it currently. On the flip side though, I think you may be right. Right? Like, we we are so we live and breathe and have for, you know, most of our lives, the vampire chronicles, so that whatever take they sort of ran off on, we've contemplated that or we've had that philosophical discussion with another fan in the past. And so it's like, oh yeah, look at what they're doing here. And we can imagine where they take that and how they bring that around still to the core of the character. Yep. That does make sense. I I'm gonna cross my fingers and, again, hope you're right there. That they're building towards something beautiful here that we're gonna be proud of in the end. We did get our first actual Tallahasco mentioned, by the way, on your Bingo cards. You can go ahead

Ashley: and see how to go. Yes.

Joel: But, boy, the the Facebook group has already been lit up in the Discord too. I think the the organization here as presented is very, very different clearly now from --

Ashley: Very lackluster.

Joel: -- in particular, we don't know who this supervisor is, this contacting SIPRIAN or the SIPRIAN contacted to ask for permission to sort of tell Rowan what's going on. But he gave Ciprian the instruction to protect her. That's what you're there for, is to protect her. Which is very different than than -- You're there to watch. -- agency that is there to watch and observe. Yeah. Exactly. Interesting. And not necessarily even wrong, very I am looking forward to hearing and seeing what they're doing with this and and what they're building towards. And I am very interested to think what Roland and his crew at the IWTV is gonna do when handed this organization in, you know, a season and a half. I I say that. I assume the Tallahassee will have at least an appearance in season two of interview because there is the modern day storyline. We're building towards Queen of the damned clearly in that series, and Queen of the damned is very very Tallamaska heavy. So

Ashley: It'll be

Joel: it'll be interesting to see what Roland does with this group.

Ashley: Well, we're it's it's sort of like I'm I'm sort of in my brain taking it as like This is a New Orleans, like, field location. This is, like, maybe not even a permanent office, but an office that's been set up to deal with the crazy shit that goes on in New Orleans. Well, as opposed to, like, one of the performances in, like, London that are that are much more what we expect to see, which is the, like, a beautiful, old, antique looking home with beautiful air caves and lush libraries, you know, with beautiful carpets and things like that as opposed to this, like, what appears to be, like, kind of So the third floor of a five story building built in the seventies.

Joel: Yeah. I want I want one of the Atenborough brothers to come around the corner and go, you know, spared no expense.

Ashley: Right. Exactly. It just doesn't feel doesn't feel the same, but I think maybe it's meant to feel different. And hopefully, we'll still get, you know, we'll still get a glimpse of the telemasca in in in a different way than we're seeing it now. That's what I'm hoping.

Joel: So we talked last week about the fact that we were gonna have a Deidra awakening instead of you know, dying and that being the inciting incident of the novel. Here in the series, she was gonna wake up. And she did. She did wake up, and we do get several scenes with Anabeth Gish as Didra. She does some great work in this episode. I thought I was really, really looking forward to her and her story. Let's talk now about the airplane scene, Ashley.

Ashley: Oh, yeah.

Joel: One of my favorite scenes in all of the these novels, honestly. We mentioned it when we talked about the book. I I love the ghost sex in the airplane scene. Yeah. Rowan is laying there sort of half dosing in her airplane seat and Lasher comes to her and fucks her brains out right there in the seat.

Ashley: Right there is translating

Joel: her mowns, basically.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: And it's it's cool. It's cool seen in the book. Listen. I am all four Alexandria Didario twistin' around in her seat to to a ghost lover. I am honestly all four Anabelle Gish twisting around in her bed to a ghost lover. It bothers me a little bit when you make them daughter and mother and they get from

Ashley: the present

Joel: time in the show. The the present about you? Why did they ruin my airplane? They ruin my airplane orgasm, Ashley?

Ashley: They ruin your airplane porn, Joel. I'm really sorry. They made it they made it in sassy. I guess maybe they're just trying to mentally prepare us for their fuck up shit that's to come. You know?

Joel: I mean, they did put it up. It's episode two, and we get it we get it all off the top. It's effectively like a ghost mother daughter threesome.

Ashley: Yeah. With your with everyone's favorite demon. Yeah. It is a it was I thought that was an interesting choice. It's definitely, you know, mentioned to the book that that, you know, that Jira has reacted in that way to last year something Cartletta, I think, screams about and curses about and is a real bitch about. And I think that that's it's it's it was cool to include that, but it was weird to kind of make it that sort of ghost mom daughter three some I

Joel: mean, they could have even done it

Ashley: as two seasons. Right? If I get two seasons. Specific. In your in your pornhub category, I feel like. Post goes, sex, plus mother, daughter, thirty seven. Thirty seven, mother, thirty seven with ghosts. Airplane status. Plus, sign in room in New Orleans plus go somewhere else. Getting

Joel: you some of those special characters to get that

Ashley: certain item. Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. I loved though. I loved, though, the scene. Well, though, oh, I do wanna mention this because Kelly and I both laughed at it. Carl they make such a big deal about Carlotta being overprotective of Deidre and and being worried about the fact that the doctor maybe is not doing exactly what she wants him to do, you know, earlier in the episode. And then suddenly, Eidra gets put to bed in her room. She's all over the room. She throws the the snow globe against the wall and nobody comes and checks on the woman who's been an invalid for

Ashley: No. It sounded like the raccoons in the attic.

Joel: Yeah. That's the other thing too. That woman heard her orgasming. She knows she did. She says she did to Deidre, and then she's super surprised later when Deidre's eyes are open and she's moving around. I mean, I don't know. They're a little bit silly there. But I did really enjoy the trip to Cortland's house. First of all, interesting to me that Deidre would still think of Cortland as an escape. Or or a a a route out even though that's effectively as presented in the show, the last moment she was ever in public -- Right. -- you know, like, she went to Cortland's party got drugged and screwed and was pregnant and then was locked away by Carlada and then went crazy. So, like, man, I don't know. But anyway, I did like that she goes to him, and I love their back and forth here, including a very sly line from Cortland here. Harry Hamlin Hamlin and Nike gone. That time. He

Ashley: ate that he the whole house. He would that he ate that whole house. Two

Joel: in -- He's on the street. -- two in the walls for Jesus Christ. So, Deidre comes down in the beautiful green dress, by the way, which we've seen in the trailers, very cool. And then he says, well, that was my daughter's old dress. Oh, it was. It was indeed, Cortland. That was your daughter's dress. Wasland. And then Dietra, I think, can't set it too. Dedris says, when I was young, used used to take me every year on my birthday and buy me a dress like this. Well, somebody had too, Karl Lotta had you in them old sex. Or whatever. But, like, I

Ashley: think sleep nightgowns.

Joel: Deidre knows yes. I think Deidre knows that Cortland is her father. And I think Cortland is absolutely her father in this series. Oh,

Ashley: I do. A hundred percent.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley: And and also also clearly Rowan's. I think that that's I mean, that's gonna be very clear, I think, before too much

Joel: attention. Yes. I cannot wait I

Ashley: do think Honestly,

Joel: I get like that. Even if the show sucked, I would stick around for that revelation, honestly.

Ashley: That part

Joel: between Harry and Alexandria is gonna be great. I

Ashley: think that I think one of the reasons why she goes to him is is probably because, like, Habit almost, you know, that's where she went when she was young. So it's the only place she can think to go. Also, it's house clearly not in fucking memory because that's not a block.

Joel: No. It's like I think that's down somewhere on, like, Saint Charles or something. That's somewhere around the Garden District.

Ashley: Absolutely. Yeah. It is But why is that that she's gonna go to a place to be helped for she has also been victimized. That sucks.

Joel: And whether she knows that or not, it is it is incredibly sad to me that that's her only option. Like, that's that's it. That's what she's got. This this series is just determined to give us some more sadness with Anabeth Gish. I love the build up to the meeting with Rowan that, you know, again, we we talked about some beautiful cinematography earlier. The shots back and forth, the editing of that scene. Rowan gets a phone call from Ciprian. I'm gonna meet you downstairs in the lobby. You know, Deedra's on her way from Cortland's house, are they gonna cross each other? That's my wife was like, oh, they're gonna pass each other. She's gonna be going up in the elevator, and she's gonna be going down. I'm like, no. This elevator. This Hotel has one elevator. I guarantee you. That's her coming up in the elevator. I'm

Ashley: gonna be like a lot of downstairs.

Joel: Yes.

Ashley: I

Joel: never in a billion years though would have guessed at the resolution.

Ashley: No. No. I was I was shocked like hands over my mouth, gasping, holy shit, what the fuck just happened? How did this happen? Holy shit.

Joel: So the thing that just literally occurred to me as you and I were saying that, what if what if I've been assuming that this is somebody in the family. Right? Like in fact, I think this episode is hinting at it very specifically being Lasher. That did this to do

Ashley: -- Yes.

Joel: -- and somebody in the in the Facebook group was talking about, like, how they really, really hope that's not true. Last year is a lot of things. But he's not maliciously violent towards his witches he loves and, well, as much as he can love. He's --

Ashley: Right. --

Joel: not a creature that can love on

Ashley: a tree. He's is which

Joel: is and genuinely wants them to be happy. Yes. He needs

Ashley: -- He needs -- and

Joel: they're like a pet project. Right? Yes. Exactly. But here, I think they've they've hinted that Lascher did this. I just thought though we're talking about this mortal bad guy or or a series of moral bad guys being some sort of witch hunter group. What if like what if that's where that goes? And it's it's a misdirect that Core lends the bad guy, or that Carlotta did it, or that even that Lascher would do it, etcetera, etcetera. What if that's the thing is is that our you know, oh my god, Dietra's back awake. We've gotta go kill her now, you know.

Ashley: We're out

Joel: in the which the which group goes and hits her immediately.

Ashley: The only thing that

Joel: just popped into my head just then. I had not considered

Ashley: the only reason the only thing that I can think of as to why last year or last year may have done it or they're justifying making us think that last year did it, is that he's ready for Rowan. He's done with Deidra. He's ready for Rowan. Now is his time. He knows it's his time. He feels himself, you know, getting stronger because he's finally been able to break out of or to to help get, you know, deidre awake, you know. So the the implication is that he's kind of stymied while she has been, you know, drugged up. And so the idea that he worried that she'll end up back under a cart lot of thumb again, getting drugged up again, and he can't afford that, he doesn't want that. So this is his opportunity to get rid of one and move to the next switch.

Joel: Yeah. I think that's exactly what the the episode sort of hints at. I mean, even the, you know, he says a couple of times you're do you remember when I promised you your life was about to change? Like, that's happening now. You know, that's it's all it all seems ominous, especially the way that it's played. Then there's a couple of moments where he sort of, like, reaches out for Rowan, and she

Joel: calls him back.

Ashley: Yes. She tells him no.

Joel: And then you're, like, oh, Oh, I can't have this bitch. Well, fine. I won't have you anymore. How about this? You know?

Ashley: Right. Also, like, she had that

Joel: Very interesting.

Ashley: Her fluffle with with Carlotta before she goes right into the elevator. I mean, something could have happened there too. But, like, there was a most incredible a really incredible visual image for me. Her standing there in that dress with that dark hair and and and those blue eyes and then just blood. Oh, fuck. I was just Ford.

Joel: It was crazy too. I went back and looked like again and again and again too because you see her for just a second, and then you flash to Rowan's eyes, and Rowan says it's you.

Ashley: Yes.

Joel: And then you get the realization that she is attacked. And I was like, surely, there's some sort of hint. There's something in that first moment when we see her when we should know that this is not maybe you don't know that she's bleeding, but surely there's something there awry. I freeze frame them. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't see any hint that first moment. But I do love that entire sequence from from the buildup of her heading from Cortland's to the hotel and and Rowan getting the call from Ciprian to that moment where they're holding each other and she's bleeding all over the hotel over the the hotel elevator, that's the best thing the show has done so far. And if they can do, you know, four or five more of those over the course of this season. Even if they screw up a lot of my characters and things, I'll still be fine with it. The ride will be worth it overall, I think, because that was super affecting and surprising and all the things that you want good to

Ashley: eat. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and and just visually stunning. Just I mean, oh, like, everything about that everything about that scene, the walking down the hall, the look of the carpet, as you know, the timing of everything was just brilliant. And and it was seriously like every everything was coming to a head because she was also getting ready to meet that woman to take her to the house so that she would know where the house was. So it was literally, like, regardless of what happened in the next you know, five minutes. Shit was gonna hit the fan in the next thirty regardless.

Joel: And that's right. That's right. Shit was about to hit the fan. Man, I I I don't know, man. I I was not expecting season one of the Mayfair which is to turn into who should J. R. But I I mean, I think I think they're gonna hold out that mystery of who killed Deidre all the way till the season's end.

Ashley: Mean, that wouldn't be at all surprising. That would not be at all surprising to see if that that's a little bit of a, like, a a a b plot or a c plot of the whole thing. Trying to figure that out as far as, like, the the main plot being Rowan now navigating this world that she is now inherited inherited everything. You know, and and what's gonna happen next with all of that. And that that's trying to figure out what happened. Did you during you know, a good strong subplot of the whole thing?

Joel: Well, and even even amongst like, even as she comes into her power, even as she understands you know, what she is and and what her background is. Even as she gets to know Lasher, it'll be a situation where she's still very much unlike Rowan of the books, honestly, where Rowan always feels like she's on sure footing. Rowan always knows who she is and what she's supposed to do. Honestly, it's one of the things that's kind of, like, annoying about her, honestly, in the books. You know, even in the end, she plunges headlong into this relationship with Lascher and then sort of we talked about in the book discussion only at the last minute. She's like, what are what are you gonna do it like that? Oh, no.

Ashley: That's what I thought.

Joel: I think Rowan's Rowan's not gonna know who to trust, right, or who she can lean on. And so I think she'll be more vulnerable to all of whatever the machinations of this is, whether and I do think Cortland is sort of trying to maybe manipulate it so that that Lascher is his. And that he is at the head of the family.

Ashley: It does sort of feel that way.

Joel: Folks in it. Right.

Ashley: It does sort of feel that way. Yeah. They're setting him up. It's a be to as as very he feels really slimy and he is. And so all that's right, but also is it like is it is he slimy because I know why he slimy? Or is it slimy because they're setting up a whole different, like, way to make him a piece of shit. And I didn't get that out because that one wasn't ever the way any of them really behaved as far as as, like, wanting wanting the, you know, the power for themselves. Like, that was not really an underlying thing with any of any of the other characters. There was not that there might be jealousy of of of, you know, the witch, the one. But whatever, it wasn't like they were trying to steal it for themselves. You know, that just wasn't really a thing in the book at all. So it's an interest that's another interesting change and it makes sense and it's probably something that would make makes very good sense and just, you know, any sort of story that's along in these lines. There's gonna be and there's an heritage and someone wants it, you know, so they're they're gonna be villainous. And so this does is another thing that kind of gives this show an opportunity to be more of a more of a mainstream kind of have more mainstream appeal, sort of things that you mentioned earlier. Well,

Joel: in, like, also as as as Julian's descendant, Cortland might like, have a little bone to pick. Be like, well, you know, granddaddy ran the family or daddy. I can't remember

Ashley: now. Right.

Joel: I think Cortland is supposed to be Julian's son in the books. Anyway, the

Ashley: book -- Yes. --

Joel: timelines work here is a little shifty. I I don't think that's gonna be I think Cortland is too young to be Julian's son here. I wonder if they were play if they moved Pierce backwards

Ashley: -- Yeah. --

Joel: a generation. Right? Like, there's no Pierce so far in the show. Maybe Pierce was Cortland's father here and and so Cortland is Julian's grandson. Anyway, whatever they do, it's clear to me though that I think that's what Harry's playing at least. Maybe that's not the overall arc of the show that they wanna do, but I think that's what he's playing in these scenes is is a little bit covetous of if it's the power, if it's the wealth, maybe it's both. I don't know. He's clearly living living an okay life though, so I don't think it's just the money. I think it is

Ashley: money. No. I think

Joel: you see at least hinted in the in the trailer, there's at least one scene between them, which would make it very interesting because in the books, Cortland does not see Lascher.

Ashley: No. No. The only, really, the only male that's ever mentioned to really see last year aside from, like, Michael sees him is is, like, Julian is, like, really, the only male mayfair that sees him.

Joel: Yes. Yes. And there there are a couple of, like, telemasco members and things like that. The reports see in the man, but nobody in the family. No one else no men in the family ever see Lasher until Michael. And there again, like in the books, Michael is a distant you know, mayfair relative or whatever. And again, part of this overarching, like, we're breeding the greatest witch project or whatever. I don't know, man. I don't think I don't think they're gonna do that aspect of it. But again, I I'm interested to see how the Hamlin of it all plays out and how they bring in still hoping crossing my fingers that he's not replacing Julian, but just given us like an alternate take on that male witch you know, devious whatever aspect. I I think I think just as we talked about last week, we might see this now and in the future when we get a more heavy season with flashbacks of the the twenties and thirties that we see a version of that archetype, but but played with more Jwad Aviva and a little less manipulation and and somebody that we end up liking more, you know, like, oh, that rascal trillion. Anyway, I I'm overall in for this show. Still, the highs are pretty high. It's better than than your average TV show out there, particularly in this genre. And so

Joel: even when they stumble and even when they make boneheaded decisions like Barry and Crows on the beach, not gonna be not gonna be too

Joel: angry at him.

Ashley: We are gonna make fun of them.

Joel: Wanted to oh, we're damn sure gonna make fun of them. I wanted to implement something new. We have not done before but I wanted to start mentioning and reading a a review from iTunes, Apple Podcasts, I should say. Excuse me.

Joel: And I'll do one of these from time to time. I probably wanna remember to do it every episode, but I did wanna mention it. If you have not reviewed the show before, please do so in Apple Podcasts or you can review and Spotify now too. If you follow and listen there. If you don't listen to the show there, I don't think they'll let you actually write a review. They'll let you rate it regardless, but you gotta actually listen to the show before they'll let you review it. Here's one though from, let's see, Ghost, you are to me. I like that I like that username. Feeding my and Rice addiction. This is such an entertaining, considerate podcast. I started listening as a companion to AMC interview with the Vampire series, and I appreciate the respect and love for this material while leaving space for the interpretation and nuance of the new adaptation. Can't wait to dive into more with these two great hosts as the

Joel: immortal universe lives on. Thank you so much.

Joel: Ghost you are to me. I love that one. Right? See, that'll make

Ashley: you feel good. I love

Joel: to get a little pat on the back once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there you go. If you haven't if you haven't reviewed the show, that's your suggestion to go do so. You'll probably get mentioned in the show eventually. Ashley, I want to tell everybody in case they missed it. We did do a Dorian discussion club last week. Right? Much fun.

Ashley: Yeah. I did. It was kind of like our our premier party, and it was a super good time.

Joel: Yeah. Really good time. Very interesting conversation too. I thought that episode is available. It's out on our podcast feed. So in case you missed it or overlooked it, thinking it one for you. Go check it out. We ended up having some really interesting talks about gender and and non binary gender and very specifically then about religion and mysticism, which honestly wasn't expecting, but we had some great conversation. Go check it out.

Ashley: Oh, it was it was a really great chat. Our our our guest from from Dorian was so fantastic. We had such it was just it was a great chat. I highly recommend checking it out. Great for great discussion about gender fluidity and and gender roles as far as witchcraft and and and and tying in, you know, to a substation of the female gender and all of that, it's just it's a a great discussion. We had a we had a blast. We always have a good time when we when we

Joel: go over and play with Dorian. So we always appreciate them having us. And we'll be back. We'll be back over there for the finale. We're gonna do a finale party after the final episode of this first season, hopefully, cross our fingers of the Mayfair witches as well. So, yeah, watch watch out for links there and check them out. Speaking of links. In the show notes to this episode, you can find links to our Facebook group. If you are a Facebook user, if you're not, we've got a discord community we'd love for you to join. Good conversation happening in both places if you wanna dive in deep not only to the shows themselves, but the movies before the books as well. Lots of folks reading through. Oh, I do wanna make this comment mention this comment too. I thought this was funny. My friend, Derek, who has been reading through the Vampire Chronicles for the first time sort of along with us. He started reading the books in preparation for the interview series. And he's all the way up. He had finished a tail of the body thief already, like, a month ago or two months ago. Right? His interview was finishing. He sent me a message today. He said, I started MIMNOC today. I'm back on that vampire shit.

Ashley: Yes. We are all in our vampire shit. I love it. One other thing that's a great thing about the group is just a general conversation about, like, what people think about the characters. Like, and and and how like, there are people that are some real strong opinions about characters that are loved and hated and everything in between. So that's one of my favorite stuff is our conversations we're talking about, you know, our favorite murder gauntlet and Armand and, you know, and what a piece of trash it can be and have the passionate Oman fans come in and try to defend the little piece of shit. And it's just great. It's just great. Very good time. Good times had by all.

Joel: Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, Ashley, I've been meaning to say this off the year because I wanted to do it in a specific way, but let's mention it on the air. You've got an upcoming project that we haven't really mentioned here on the show. You mentioned it last week during the Dorian Discussion Club when we were saying, like, you know, where else can we find you, etcetera, etcetera. But tell people about the new podcast. Oh, look at fourth concert.

Ashley: Guys. Okay. So We're hoping to start putting episodes out in February fingers crossed, but it might not be until March just kinda depending on how our research goes, but it's called unsolved Arkansas. I am from Hot Springs, Arkansas, and I live in little rock now. And I'm working with with a really great producer who is very interested in unsolved cases in our state. And there's so mainly, we're gonna be looking at cold cases or you know, and and or questionable cases, things that maybe, like, maybe a suicide that we're not quite sure what really happened there, cases that need to have a second set of eyes on them. And so so, yeah, I'm super excited. It's called unsolved Arkansas. I'll I'll let you guys know when when it when it starts to, you know, hit the hit the waves hit the airwaves. But hopefully, we'll be, you know, February, March. Very excited. I'm I love. I've been True Crime Junkie since I was a kid. You know, I read Hellsher Sculptor when I was, like, thirteen. I

Joel: well, I think there's a big overlap in our audience and True Crime Listers too, probably. So

Ashley: So obviously,

Joel: when the show is is out, we'll put we'll put the links in the show notes. But also, I was gonna tell you we'll drop we'll we'll do an episode drop. We'll we'll drop it into our feed so people can see it and then they can link out to the show and subscribe on their own. So so folks would definitely get a chance to that, but stay tuned for that. It's coming soon, unsolved Arkansas. I I heard that. I remembered it last week and I made a note for myself. Make sure you get Ashley to to promote her shit here on the show. So folks, we appreciate you listening to us. They everybody who joins us this weekend and week out here on Articulate Cove and we'll be back next week as we discuss episode three of the Mayfair Witches. Find those links in the show notes, join the conversation all week long. And until we're back with you again, we have been the articulate coven. I am Joel.

Ashley: And I am Ashley.

Joel: And we are the Articulate, Kevin. Thanks for listening to the Articulate Coveen. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your Am Rice loving friends.