We are Officially Shooketh - Ashley and Joel Discuss “The Thing Lay Still” Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E07 - AC019

We are Officially Shooketh - Ashley and Joel Discuss “The Thing Lay Still” Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E07 - AC019

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for Anne Rice's interview with the vampire and Anne Rice's immortal universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to the Articulate oven. We are your hosts.

Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.

Joel: I'm Joel Sharpton, and we are the articulate coven. And

Ashley: we are shooketh.

Joel: Oh my goodness. We are shooketh. We are officially shooketh. So much so much to talk about. I I will say, folks, I I am so thankful that this series has come into our lives. I'm excited about the next couple of months now that we know what the what the cast diaries are. We'll talk about that in a minute too. Now that the filters are, you and I are gonna get some time off over the next several weeks as we prepare for the Mayfair. So that's good news for us too. But, boy, I just I see a whole off season. I mean, I'm very excited for season two announcements. I I wanna know what the production schedule is, and I wanna know when we can expect it. I'm assuming it'll probably launch about this same time next year. So the first of October in twenty twenty three is my guess.

Ashley: That feels yeah. That feels right.

Joel: Right. I mean, I'm hoping we eventually get to a place where they are doing divided seasons. But the second season, all of the trade releases when they announced the second season renewal. I hadn't really noticed it at the time, but all of them say, eight episode season. Eight episode second season. So I think that's pretty locked in at this point. I'm still hopeful in the future that we get to like a twelve episode season or a fourteen episode season where they then divide it into two sixs or two sevens so that we get this show, you know, once every six months. That's what they did with the Walking Dead. That's what they've done with that all along. They did it eventually with breaking bad too towards the end. I think they did it better call it all as well. I

Ashley: think I think it just makes sense with the shorter season. Sometimes Yeah. And I think some of that had to do with, like, out of necessity, with production time, and things like that. But, yeah, we we wouldn't mind that you're around y'all. We can handle it and we'll all watch it. We're we've we've shown it. We've proven it. We'll watch it. Give it.

Joel: Well, and and, you know, they're using this to really launch and push their streaming service internationally. And if you want somebody to stay subscribed, you wanna lower your churn rate the way to do that is to have, you know, similar content that that the fans that that that same, you know, subscriber wants throughout the calendar year. So if they only give us interview with the vampire and then Mayfair which is right on top of it and then you go six months without, you're gonna have a lot of people that that effectively want to fall out and not not subscribe to those six months in the

Ashley: offices. Absolutely.

Joel: So

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: Anyway, alright. Let's get into this. We are talking, by the way, about episode seven of season one of interview with the vampire. I really like the branding. You only got it at the very end. Review with the vampire part one. That's why what this season will be known I think in retrospect. That makes me wonder if as we get into future books, you know, at let's say, Season

Ashley: two wraps up the

Joel: interview with the Vampire Storyline. Do they then retightle the show? And maybe you know

Ashley: It feels like that's the natural progression. Or something.

Joel: Yeah.

Ashley: Yeah. It

Joel: feels like the heart about we've talked about are there spin offs? Maybe there's still our spin offs to this, but what what we may see is just a a change of the title, maybe with some some colon and branding, you know, subtitle branding, whatever. It

Ashley: all exists under the umbrella.

Joel: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. The the thing lay still was the name of this one. It's written by Ben Philippe directed by Alexis Ostrinder and man. Holy shit. Fantastic job. Let's just let's say right here off the top, this writing crew has taken us

Ashley: a longer to drive

Joel: no doubt. But it's so clear they had a story to tell. Now whether you differ with the story that they told, whether you wish they had told a different story. That's that's a fair quibble, and we can and we will talk about that. I think endlessly in the off season, But -- Absolutely. -- they clearly had none none of this was squandered or wasted. They put their

Ashley: pieces on Not a minute of not a minute of

Joel: this. No.

Ashley: Exactly. And and then time was wasted. And and also it was all set up in the previous episode. Two is, like, the way Claudia said to Louis, you know, you have to be you have to think like him and then you have to be five steps ahead of him. And that was that that played out so brilliant and and, you know, in the last in the last chapter of this of this episode, it was just unbelievable. I also think in addition to they clearly had their story mapped out, which thank god, I hate, like, messy adaptations where they're just grass forget Charles. Last last season of Game of Thrones. But this was I also think the use of language that was pulled directly from the book was brilliant in this, you know. Oh, there's a really rich so much familiar language.

Joel: Oh, there's a lot. There were several references directly to the film as well, but

Ashley: there's -- Yes. -- there

Joel: was one quote and Roland Jones had called a shot on this one in some of the press before the season started. He had talked about a quote in this final episode that we're gonna talk about as we get towards it. But I I wanna save that a little bit. Let's go through this

Ashley: thing -- Yeah.

Joel: -- from the stop from the start. Amazing to me. I was really surprised that Daniel was able to hold his new knowledge from the end of last episode until lestat's death until until the story had been told so to speak. And Louie had reached his desired ending for this chapter so to speak. That's when Daniel finally sprung it on him and on Rashid that that he has this new knowledge of the two of them and and their interactions from the seventies. I I was flabbergasted. I really thought this thing was gonna start with him like, maybe even rushing their bedrooms or something, you know, like like wandering around early, but when he's not supposed to where what what the fuck is going on? What happened in the seventies?

Ashley: Yeah. This is a totally older version of that character though, and I think that you're you're thinking from that that young that young Daniel mindset, what he would do, and and and he's so much more I don't know. He's thinking his he's thinking his he's making his plans too. He's thinking things out thoroughly. I think he's realizing as he goes along that he is not in for what he thought he was in four. Like, this is some fucked up shit that's happening around him and and and and and he's just beginning to, like, it's tip of the iceberg. You know?

Joel: Yeah. No. You're absolutely right on all of that, of course. The the one thing I will say is it didn't even, you know, it didn't even occur to me until just now when you were saying it, Ashley, honestly. Daniel understands from that moment when he wakes up with the knowledge that Rashid was there as well, that not only is Louis sort of playing a game with him, Rashid is playing

Ashley: They both are. Yeah. Well well yeah. But less

Joel: I think Daniel understands that immediate, and I honestly didn't even get that until after I've I've watched the thing three times now and it it took a Twitter conversation with some friends for me to actually get oh, shit. There's some very clear things in this episode where Rashid, you know, we'll just go ahead and say it. If you've if you're here, you should have seen the episode. Rashida's our mind, folks. I don't know why he used that moniker exactly, but this is our mind that has been the the house boy, so to speak, for the for the season for Louis, serving him throughout, calling him mister dePoint de Lac, all of that stuff. That's been the vampire Armand this whole time. First of all, great character and a and a great portrayal. As a matter of fact, we need to get that actor's name. I I meant to write it down. I wrote

Ashley: Oh, yeah. I didn't speak about that.

Joel: No. That's alright. I'm going to get it right now because this guy is a a classically classically trained London theater actor. And

Ashley: He's been playing the slow ass burn all season. And I think so many fans suspected that and felt like that was the direction they were going in. But I think enough of us. I mean, hell, I wasn't completely sure. Every time I've thought something for sure, I've been, you know I mean, he walked out into the damn son, but then also we know that they that that is something that he could live through for sure. Aside, Saman, Asad Saman is is his name. He's beautiful too. I think that we've talked about, like, difference in appearance. You know, I think everyone was hoping for the the ginger, Armand, our our our Auburn Hair Botticelli Angel, and I still think we get a little bit of the, you know, the angelic look. Even though he's not quite the Armand off the book, I think that I I'm really excited now that we know to go back and rewatch the whole thing and look at all the things I missed and all the clues and

Joel: I'm

Ashley: so excited to to do a rewatch.

Joel: Very, very, very much looking forward to watching this all again with the knowledge of the finale. You're absolutely right. As as a matter of fact, in the middle of the day today, in between my second and third watch, I thought about watching the first episode again entirely. So here's my thing with the side. I I do, especially if you're a true Arman fan. Right? If Arman is one of your favorite characters from the books. And don't get me wrong. I find that hard to understand.

Ashley: I mean, I'll say. I've been off and on. He's been a favorite of mine. I have He's definitely in love with our mom at numerous times. And a lot of it has to do with what kind of relationship he's in with the people around him. And

Joel: -- Nah. -- indeed.

Ashley: And I do I know when I read the vampire wand, I I felt a lot for him and for his you know, for his existence in his as a human, you know, it was not it was some pretty fucked up shit. So it's just, oh, he's a complicated character like all of our all of our vampires, you know? You can't just hate

Joel: him. No. No. And, well, and he's especially as a ListAT fan, I have always he's a he's a he's a rival of ListAT. Several times in history. And because of that, both for other characters' affections and just, you know, in general as as an authority amongst vampires, And because of that, he's he's an excellent character for me, you know, to sort of love to hate. I really

Ashley: Oh, yeah. What a great foil Yeah. Yeah.

Joel: What a he's a fantastic foil. I it is interesting when he best Let's start. It is interesting to me when Let's start best him as well. Now here's my point though. If if he's your favorite character, I understand, here again, we've sort of missed the boat. Right? You don't get to see a book accurate portrayal of your favorite character not even really almost at all because he's aged up the there's, you know, he doesn't have the red hair he's not exactly from the same, you know, ethnic background, etcetera, etcetera. So all of those things are true. However, It's clear here already that they are going to portray that role of rival to L'Estat. I think through in all layers in the second season. Don't you imagine? I mean --

Ashley: Oh, my God.

Joel: -- that we might see the the the the vampire livestock flashbacks from the early part of that novel, his mortal life in the early parts of his vampire years in Paris as well as the European story with Louis and Claudia, I think that is even more likely now. Based on what we know, based on, you know, the scheduling of the contracts for everybody. Having said that, how much more fun and and uncomplicated will it be for us to watch this man be Lestat's rival for in you know, for romance as well as for power and authority. Versus, for instance, the the kid from Superman and Lois that we've talked about in the past.

Ashley: Right. Right. Right. I

Joel: think that is that kid's name. That that kid's great. It would I would feel weird if at

Ashley: the end we've followed up

Joel: and then stood beside Jacob Anderson and said, this is the love of my life. The way on our mind.

Ashley: All of it felt very earned. You know, all of that felt very, you know, it didn't feel like a trick. You know, like, I get really pissed off. Like, fight club pisses me off because I think in its presentation fight fight club is a trick. It's a lie. Whereas if you, like, as as far as, like, an ending of something like, as as a sixth sense, where if you go back, it holds up. You know what I mean? And and this doesn't feel like a lie, doesn't feel like they just pulled it out of their ass, feels like and like you said, like that's thought it out. It's part of the story. Here we go. And also, I'm like, Louis Blink twice if you're being held hostage by the vampire armand.

Joel: Holy

Ashley: shit. I'm so worried about my guy.

Joel: I just I just don't know anything.

Ashley: Where are we now in to streamline? Well, so My thing is like, are are we is, like, is this when before L'Estat rises again and becomes, you know, rock star L'Estat? Is that where we are? Like, where the fuck are we? In the timeline.

Joel: So even more so now than before Ashley, I want to know when did he rerecord come to me? He didn't have a chance between when it was recorded the first time with Antoinette, and now and yet, you know

Ashley: Wait. I mean, you could have had a chance to, like, I'm I'm sure like, with between our now time in Dubai or between our now time, then we the the murder and the exiting of New Orleans.

Joel: The murder and and now in Dubai. Oh, yeah. So I'm saying Oh, I mean, we know the start has done something.

Ashley: Yeah. At

Joel: what point in there would he have recorded this love song for Louis, and then Louis have gotten a copy of it. That, I mean, that sort of implies that the two of them have reunited even if they ended up then parting ways again. How what happened there? Did Arman beat his ass? I mean, like, what we don't know. And he's the other thing. Okay. So we we're gonna have to shove some of that aside to the end before

Ashley: we Right. Right. I haven't read

Joel: the books before and you're just watching the series. You know,

Ashley: we're we're speculating so much right now. A

Joel: lot on things that you don't know happen yet. So let's save that a little bit. Let's walk through the episode because I want to praise somebody here I've already been in love with this guy. I've mentioned him before on the show, but Tom Anderson is such a delightful addition to this series. He has been absolutely wonderful in every episode that he was in. Such a great addition to season one, and I'm really excited to see, like, what are those little things that. Maybe they spring completely from whole cloth. Like, in this case, they took a historical figure and they put

Ashley: him to this

Joel: story. He's not Tom Anderson doesn't exist to the books. No character really like that exists in the books. Because mostly because these two men don't have interactions with the, you know, Hoipolloy of New

Ashley: Orleans. Well, this is a things

Joel: of the city like they do in this series.

Ashley: This is a product of changing the time period as well. You know, this is something -- Yes. -- that you get, but because you've put them in the city to start with. There's no exit from from the plantation to the city. They've been in the city to start with. And so now we get to see how that their lifetime in the city is gonna have to come to an end because of, you know, they've been there killing people too long.

Joel: So, you know, the show writers and show runners, the the producers behind it, they promised us even they said, we're even for book fans, we want something new and exciting unexpected. You know? I think Tom Anderson is a great example of that. Oh. They and they used him not not just like a little sprinkle. Right? They used him throughout the series to show us the rise and fall of these characters connection to the city. And then in the end, they used him as such a plot device, such a turning

Ashley: ground for

Joel: the whole season and and really the series in that, we didn't expect it either. The book readers were Roland said it in the little post show thing. Oh, you're so clever. You're all into it. We know the twins are

Ashley: we The

Joel: the poison is gonna be. We see it happen in the episode. And so when that goes awry, I had myself convinced. I was like, oh, wow. I guess I guess Louis and Claudia are just gonna get lucky. Some -- Okay. -- and overcome Listat and Antoinette. Here's

Ashley: what happens.

Joel: How is this gonna

Ashley: play out? Does anyone else watch with the subtitles on? Because I do and

Joel: roll My God. Yes.

Ashley: You see that Antoinette is speaking at the ball. You

Joel: And and it's pretty clear that it was telepathically. Yeah. I will say this though. I was convinced immediately after that. You hear Tom Anderson speak. Right. And

Ashley: you see him. And I

Joel: thought, did List Act turn tires?

Ashley: Oh, shit. That's a lot. I convinced

Joel: myself that that List had two backups at this

Ashley: point for the same

Joel: reason. Oh,

Ashley: but my God.

Joel: Tom has just a freaking wonderful line. He's had great delivery in all of his scenes, but in this one in particular, I loved the delivery and I wanted to call it out when they come to him the very first time to ask him about the the party, L'Estat wants to become king of Mardi Gras. And he says, where to start? One, I'm not a party planner. Two is January. You're a little behind the gun.

Ashley: No lie y'all. Nor listen to the crowd. Marty girls are serious looking at this. You did not plan it a month ahead of time.

Joel: You're right. And three, here's me in your two tone that is in nineteen using anything wrong with this picture. I I love that line so much. I even like the two tone daddy's line. The one thing wait, the one thing that I'm I'm gonna be mad at the writers about this, Tom is a villain. He's clearly a villain. We were always gonna root for him to die At La Stad or Louis hands and and during the feasts scene. That was it was no problem with that. We needed no additional villainry from Tom in this episode, I thought. Nearly the the hungry and greedy desire for immortal life even when he thinks, you know, that these guys are all devils -- Right. -- that would have been plenty. Why? Why? Why? This this is the first time he does it too? Why does he have to say the slurs to Louis at the party?

Ashley: Okay. I actually have a thought about this, and I think that part of it, like, that that entire showing him through the entirety of the series. It's another opportunity to show outside of our unreliable narrators, the Degradation Degrad Nope. That's not not the word, the well, how all of their relationships are falling apart, not just within their home, but with people that they in the community. At this point, they've gotten to a time where this whole thing is untenable. They can't keep going. People they have relationships with people who know they should be older than they are. And I think that that that part of though it's, like, distasteful and he says some really messed up shit, it is in hard to show how far we've fallen away from these people that were our buddies at first. Like, oh, I don't mind you you too and your you're you're you're you're you're you're fancy ways. Like, we kind of waken a nudge and we ignore them, but now we're at the point that anything you do that is an abirasion, we are going to point out because it's the first thing or the last thing that we can actually see and acknowledge that's wrong here when the rest of it is such a supernatural fuckery.

Joel: That's that's that's interesting. I I again, here, even in the Mardi Gras scene, I kept thinking, man, I wonder if they're gonna throw in, like, surely there's a Mayfair at that party. Right. Whole. Like, surely there was a Mayfair at that party watching thing. I

Ashley: think we'll have an opportunity to see that maybe in, like, flashbacks in or or just in line.

Joel: In that series, maybe we'll see them. World

Ashley: of it. Yeah. Just existing in the same world. Like, somebody we're gonna see which has passed through our vampire's world. I think for sure.

Joel: Yeah. I I mean, I think it's I I really felt like with AMC building these connections that that was a missed opportunity to at least, you know, like, one of them could have been introduced to Lisai at the at the party. Right? Like, I mean, introduce I don't know who's alive at this point based on how they're compressing

Ashley: Right.

Joel: To me, the answer would have been to have Julian met L'Estat.

Ashley: Like -- Right. --

Joel: or or maybe not be introduced, but, like, have somebody say, why don't you you know, let let me introduce you to my friend Julian. And then, like, maybe even Julian turns his back on him. Like,

Ashley: because Julian

Joel: knows exactly what he is. He wants stay the fuck away from him.

Ashley: Yeah. Maybe maybe he gets invited to the party. And maybe that's not maybe that's something we'll see in an episode of their show. You know, he gets invited to that party and he's like, no, I'm not so interested in your in your, you know, fountain of youth.

Joel: Or or maybe they're sitting at the dining room table once Sunday morning, and somebody says, well, Julian, it was a good thing. You told me not to go to that Mardi Gras ball,

Ashley: though. He's got seven people in today. Rap for Yeah. I guarantee you. Especially because they talk about how much press that night got in New Orleans. Like, it would be it would be crazy if it didn't, you know, come up in conversation at the very pleased.

Joel: So anyway, I just wanted to praise Tom's character in Port Charlotte throughout the season. I think that was really well done. And and honestly, even the finish, like, the fact that he he ended up being the McGuffin for the for the episode. It was it was pretty pretty cool, man. So in episode one, Louie tells Daniel let the tales seduce you. And that is exactly what they did in this episode Claudia lets the plan seduce Lastat. And it's a really good plan, man. Like, it's honestly, it's what as I'm watching and I'm going through it, I'm like, it's sort of a shame that Anne never did this. I think she does do don't don't list that and maybe David go to Carnival at some point in one of the later books.

Ashley: So yeah.

Joel: I feel like they hunt at Carnival at some point. Maybe, you know, maybe

Ashley: I mean, you're missing the boat. If you're not, there's some good drunk blood to be had at Mardi Gras.

Joel: But also plenty of evildoers. Right? Pick

Ashley: buybacks and

Joel: thieves and and drug dealers and all sorts of people that you could could pick off even if you've got your, you know, your moral Jones on at the time as a vampire Anyway, I just thought, what a what a brilliant thing, man? And, yes, if L'Estat in this story where we're having, you know, Claudia and Louie sort of, you know, go with LaSotte, and they're all gonna leave town at once. That's

Joel: the plan. Yeah.

Ashley: That was such a great way to set it up. I

Joel: think throwing him a party, like, to say, yeah, we're gonna say fuck off New Orleans on the way out of town. I think that yeah, man. That I think you could absolutely get him to buy into that. And here's the other thing though that is interesting because of it throughout. You I feel like Sam here. Okay. So Jacob got his Emmy bona fides in in the first episode. I feel like that's the real that's gonna get played. Is this the scene in the priest, you know, the scene in the confessional.

Ashley: Oh,

Joel: yeah. This episode, though.

Ashley: Oh.

Joel: I feel like the stuffed on the balcony.

Ashley: Yeah. That's gonna

Joel: be Sam's Real. You can see it not just in that scene all throughout. You could see it in his eyes.

Ashley: Listen to him. He's so sad. He's so sad. No. He's like because you know, like, that's the thing. When I went back and watched it the second time, it was this, like, he's like, he knows what their he thinks he knows what the plan is, and he does know what the base of the plan is. And good for Louie that Claudia built in, you know, just you just fall back in love with him. That's with me. That doesn't hurt me at all. Just do that. You know? And that will be your part of the plan. And all of it is just I mean, since he knows what's happening because of Antoinette, it is just when you go back and rewatch it, it's so he's so sad. He's so like, I can't believe this is this is what it's coming to. And even though he comes to a plan where he's gonna kill Claudia, they're gonna kill Claudia, and then take Antoinette off with him to Europe. Oh, Jesus. Sort of wait a series. Sorry.

Joel: Yeah. I no. Wait. Am I supposed to read anything into the fact, by the way, isn't witnesses? Isn't that where all the Nazis went after World War two? Is

Ashley: that Oh, Yeah. No. That's Argentina. Yeah. To the nonstop. Pretty accurate. We could go munch on

Joel: because he he acknowledges their they're excellent tailoring, which is They work to go boss that designed the the the outfits. But still, I the the fact that you were heading to South America made me a little questionable there, Liz Scott. Yeah. Anyway, I just all of this stuff with Louis and and Liz thought is fantastic throughout this this part of the episode. But

Ashley: I'm talking about New Orleans. Guys.

Joel: I mean, oh, okay. So I've that's the quote by the way. That's the whole quote. Okay. So he gives this quote Roland promised this in one of the in the press tour. I heard him talk about it a couple of separate times. He said that there's a quote about the city that's from the book that was gonna be used in the show as an

Joel: emotional gut punch. So here's the full quote that they adapted from the novel. This is from the novel. New Orleans, though beautiful and desperately alive, was desperately fragile. There was something forever savage and primitive there. Something that threatened the exotic and sophisticated life, both from within and without. Not an inch of those wooden streets nor brick of the crowded Spanish houses had not been bought from the fierce wilderness that forever surrounded the city ready to engulf it. Hurricanes, floods, fevers, the plague, and the damp of the Louisiana climate itself worked tirelessly on every hewn plank or stone facade. So that New Orleans seemed at all times like a dream in the imagination of her striving populace. A dream held intact at every second. By a tenacious, though unconscious, collective will. Daniel, Ankenwright, y'all know it?

Ashley: Yeah. Y'all. This is this is what I mean, like, such beautiful and and judicious choices of of of of things to use from the books. You know, like, they haven't gone completely mad and it's not just a complete cut and paste, which Honestly, there's not enough conversations to fill a whole series that that it

Joel: Well, especially in interviews,

Ashley: you know, in interviews, especially, The biggest and most conversations Thinking

Joel: about how sad he is. Yeah.

Ashley: And the the bulk of the conversations in that are literally just between Daniel and and Louis. So, you know, of course, they've got to make up a lot of it, but, man, they've they've really, really used such wonderful passages, such wonderful lines, such wonderful phrases from from the from the book and from and also, like, a couple tonight from the movies that were just excellent.

Joel: Let's go back a couple of seconds because there's the there's a great line from L'Estat, when he's presented the twins, he says, is there Rosemary in India?

Ashley: They spell Rosemary. Yeah. They

Joel: listen, Ashley, that is the strangest and sexiest pickup line and the polish Okay. Then let me I mean, I don't know I don't know if Kelly picked up on it, but the in the future You're

Ashley: gonna come home tomorrow. Kelly's gonna have bought a Rosemary bush. And she's just gonna start me and leave the house.

Joel: We saw rose we saw our rosemary bush while we were out to the house. We had started having a beer and I thought about which I if she wants to lean into my ear and just ask if there's rosemary in my garden, I'm I'm just saying we'll be saluting. You've

Ashley: got a new you've got a new a new I got a new six code. Yeah. That's a new kids six code. And you're really in the road mirroring Everyone's sensual soaps that are sensitive with Rosemary.

Joel: Speaking of, you know, we were talking with about it earlier with our mind, I'm so glad that our twins were grown man in this in this week, by the way. Especially because they were involved in the whole fease scene, like, that would have been terrible. We had a couple of kids running around there. But we were talking, though, about the New Orleans quote and the balcony. So the first of all, I know people have given the show shit. Why do these vampires smoke and sometimes drink when we know that like food tastes like chalk? Right. I love that they smoke. First of all, both these men look fantastic with cigarettes. Right? Like both Sam and Jacob look fantastic. And there is an intimacy in the hand gestures that come from lighting and giving a cigarette. All of

Ashley: the Oh, yeah. Yeah. That

Joel: sort of, like right? Yeah. And you can see it, like, here, like, L'Estat Lights, Louis cigarette, direct

Ashley: With his cigarette. Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. There's there's something about that. Like, there's, like, a bit surpassing of the flame or I don't know, whatever. But anyway, I'm glad they smoke in the show. I think they all look great doing it. I'm sorry. Know it's not a good habit for anybody to have, and I know it doesn't make any sense for

Ashley: Vanguard. So but No. No. No. That's a change

Joel: I like. Our

Ashley: vampires don't have good habits for us to have. It's okay. We don't have to They don't have to be heroes. They don't have to be role models.

Joel: I mean, one does wonder does the nicotine call many nerves or anything? Like, they don't have circular systems in the way that we do I don't anyway Sure. I don't I'm not worried about the I'm just worried about how it looks.

Ashley: Yeah. It it it does look very cool. Our guys look

Joel: very very cool.

Ashley: Share and cigarette together on a balcony.

Joel: I loved the dance.

Ashley: Oh, yes. Wonderful. That was beautiful.

Joel: I loved the rapids of come to me, by the way. That's the music that's playing behind them. I love the scandalous kiss, you know, everybody's first of all, it's scandalous when they start dancing. You can hear, like, a murmur from

Ashley: me. Oh, yeah. Gas. That's in when when it goes in for the kiss. And I love that Louie, it's Louie that goes in for the kiss too. And that's just another line. Like, another part another layer of of how this is, like, stabbing Lostat in the heart. You know what I mean? But

Joel: see, that's what I'm that's what I'm talking about when I say, like, there's the layers for Sam because okay. So, what does LISTOT want? LISTOT wants to be the center of attention? He wants the family to hunt together in the same sort of like vicious way toying with his food that he enjoys personally. And he wants love and affection from Claudia to but mostly from Louis. And here, in their plan, they give him everything that he wants.

Ashley: Yeah. And

Joel: he takes it even knowing that it's a poison pill. You know, it's it's sort of I I thought earlier, like, it would be like, you know, Jesus and Judas go into the last supper except in this case, Jesus has the new thirteenth apostle hanging out outside, ready to kick in the door to scratch. Judith's throat, you know.

Ashley: Yeah. It was, like, it adds extra layers.

Joel: Yeah. So, I mean, like, is your this Jesus is his little bloodthirsty.

Ashley: He's walking into a a huge betrayal.

Joel: To a trap.

Ashley: Yeah. And and he's smart enough to have figured out that that it's happening. And I love it so brilliant. I knew it immediately when Louie said that Claudia was limiting talking to him. That meant she was choosing the time she was doing it and meant she was choosing what she was saying very carefully. To me, I was like, oh, that bitch has got a real specific plan coming up. So, like, I was not surprised to see the twists and turns as they came up because I knew immediately when when he said we could plan by talking telepathically, but Claudia really limited us doing it, but she didn't explain why. I was

Joel: like, why? Telling me.

Ashley: I was like, oh, well, hell. Hell. Hell. Hell. That big chance wouldn't

Joel: it? I I wonder if the show and again, sorry, this is maybe a slight spoiler. I'm gonna try to be vague. I wonder if the show is going to make Claudia more complicit or even directly responsible for her own resolution in season two. Let's put it like that. I I think that they're sowing the seeds here already. Especially in the end when Daniel starts asking questions about, you know, Claudia's mood after this party and after their exit from Louisiana. I think there's so in the seeds that perhaps this Claudia is more of an active agent in her own life and choices.

Ashley: I think it's just

Joel: on a roller coaster

Ashley: than the one

Joel: from the book.

Ashley: I think that we are definitely it's definitely setting us up for that. She is I feel like from jump street, she's had more agency in this, which is, frankly, more fun for me. I don't have to because I'll say this too. I think something that the last couple of episodes have really reminded me of is that this is from the horror genre. And I think sometimes I get so wrapped up in, like, the Gothic romance of it that I forget, that this is fucking vam prior horror shit, you know. And I think it's something that's been really fun about the last couple of episodes is that it has been scary. Like, I was literally at one point watching watching it the first time. Like, I had my blanket up, like, around my face because I was just like because I could have a hat all the anticipation of what I had figured out and what was about to be revealed with Antoinette and the shit was hitting the fan hard core with people getting killed, I left right and center, and I was legit like having a horror movie moment, and I was so excited because, I mean, that's one of the things that we do love about this, but it's so easy to get stuck in in the romance, but all, and the and the ins and outs of, like, the big heavy thoughts of it, and the and the philosophical questions, and all of that. At the core, it's still vampires. Holy shit and they're scary sometimes.

Joel: Oh, a million percent. Yuri I literally, one of my notes here, like, the one of my next notes is, I do not love the gore in the face.

Ashley: Oh, bitch. Pull the jaw off the so

Joel: Oh my god. Oh my

Ashley: god. That's killing killing this. Off. And tell it to me and then we saw the guy.

Joel: Oh, wow. He pulled that guy job.

Ashley: Yeah. And then we

Joel: and

Ashley: then the camera goes back to him because it's not just enough to see Louis standing

Joel: there. We

Ashley: gonna go Let's

Joel: dive into the gaping hole. Just suck out some some some juicy juice. Oh my goodness. So look, pizza is unexpected.

Ashley: No. Not at all an extension, but man, who I was it was just a reminder of what we're dealing with here. These are fucking vampires.

Joel: We talked earlier about how there's, like, the mirror in the first episode. Louie tells Daniel to let the tails seduce him and hear Claudia's letting the plot seduce L'Estat in the first episode, we have the super violent scene in the church at the end. Here, we have the mirror with the super violent final scene. In the, you know, after the party. So, yeah, it's not unexpected. This is the network that gives us the Walking Dead. And I think at least in part, this immortal universe is supposed to eat up some of that audience as as the Walking Dead sort of ages out or or at least the main show does. It's over this year. I think they want some of the body horror that you're gonna get and, you know, the the Mayfair witches. I

Ashley: believe Nicki Yeah. So the

Joel: the Gore that you get in this show

Ashley: I think Nikitaro's team is doing the the oh, shit. Sorry.

Joel: The effects.

Ashley: The effects which if you're getting that, you know, you're you're in for it. You know what you just

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. No. You're talking

Ashley: about some of the greatest, like, you're the some of the greatest, like, gore creators of our of our generation for sure. Like, these guys are fucking amazing. And I am I I do get pumped to see it because I do. Like, I love horror. I love horror. Like, I have spent all fucking October just like like drunk on slasher films. You know what I mean? And so I I like that reminder that that's the genre we live in. They are beautiful and romantic and sexy, but they are still killers. They are still vampires. They are still months like, do not ever forget what they are. Was

Joel: just so interesting to me that, like, I mean, I don't know. That's, like, It's like the tenth and eleventh reasons that I'm interested in this book series is the blood and the violets. You know, like, it's just

Ashley: Right. It's so good for this. But also I think, like, again, unreliable narrator, they're always like, oh, well, we're very clean and tidy with something. I mean, you know there's hear in this shit out of people when they're eating them sometimes. You know, it's not always like they're not always giving to someone that gentle embrace and and and and and the way that it's described so many times is like and in the books that happens all the time, they're like, oh, I just re I just found this person and I took them in my arms and I drank all their blood, but I made them think about the last time their lover said they love them or some shit like that when really it's just a fucking vampire eating someone.

Joel: Oh, man. That was the the now that sounded like you were running Armando down there. That sounds more like Armando than anybody. Oh, they I only call the ones that long for death.

Ashley: That's right.

Joel: Alright. I got a I got a question for you here. What is L'Estat doing the moment before Antoinette comes into the house? So the first time that I watched it, I thought Oh, my gosh. He's calling to her. But no, he

Ashley: can't. I can't. Maybe he can't speak telepathically to their project. He's opening the door for her.

Joel: Okay. So that's what that was my guess the second time. I said, he he uses his mind to to explode the locker

Ashley: window. Tops the longest Yeah. Because they've already planned was waiting outside. Was waiting for their plan. Yeah. That was the

Joel: signal. Right?

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Like, you'll hear the door. You'll hear the fucking not plow the door. Come on in, Mitch. It's on.

Joel: Yeah. If you don't, then I don't need you to

Ashley: know. Oh, and her mimicking their voices.

Joel: Who

Ashley: is so gross. Like, there was something about after she comes she comes into the room and and and we've revealed that she's been the one that's been titling Claudia's thoughts to L'Estat. And and she's been kicking their voices in this just hateful way. It's just so it's so cruel kind of hateful and and awful. And I all I could think was he thinks that Louis gonna go away with her after this. Are you fucking kidding me? You're lunatic. You're so crazy.

Joel: See, Antoinette is another good example of of and see, that one's not from whole cloth. They took a character from the books. Right. One, and and they expanded that character, drug it out at a different point in

Ashley: the in the story, you know Great way of doing it. Frank, like a really great way of making that character more important even than it was in the book.

Joel: And also, giving us a decent sized female role in a book that is woefully --

Ashley: Right. --

Joel: on female characters

Ashley: We didn't cut. We just had a mission about that, not too long ago. Yeah. There's not a lot of of female representation in these books in general. In And most of the women most of the

Joel: women This one is the worst offender. Yeah.

Ashley: And most a lot of the women have no agency. I think that that's kind of especially our human our human females. No, don't say females. Our human ladies that we see are have very little agency as far as their ins and outs and dealings with our supernatural characters.

Joel: Alright. Pop quiz question number two. Okay. Did Claudia love L'Estad. So she says, they're standing over his body. They've already burned Antoinette at this point. And she tells Louis for the first time, we have to burn them. And then she says, I've killed so many. Just no one I and before she can say anything else, Louie cuts her off and starts speaking about I don't think I can do it, just no

Ashley: one I you know,

Joel: etcetera, etcetera. What was she have said? Would would she have said cared for? No one I cared for. Would she have said loved? Did Claudia Love List add?

Ashley: I mean, I think that that's I think she has she has to have left left left at because otherwise it doesn't matter. Otherwise, you know, her his cruelty to her, his indifference to her, you know, it it it would matter, but it wouldn't. It would just be like, okay, this is you know, I'm dealing with somebody who doesn't really give that much of a shit about

Joel: me.

Ashley: You you can get past that if it's not someone you care about, somebody you care if they are invested in you, you care if they and there are times that they have good times too. And I mean, I can say, I'll I'll be really honest. I I have my father passed away in two thousand one, but he was he could be abusive. He was very verbally abusive. Very a very challenging person to live with. He was an alcoholic. There's that there's that love that you know, but when he was great, he was so great. No one got me more than him. You know, when he was sober and he was fun and he was cool. We had the best times ever, you know. But when it was bad, it hurt so much worse because you have that good good to compare it to you. I don't know if that makes sense at all.

Joel: I mean, not only does it make sense, you absolutely could have been doing a monologue in the character of Claudia. I think talk about

Ashley: talk about it. It's not there too much. But just You can't talk calls. But let me like, this is that's that's the perspective I think of when I when I when I watch this, especially, this has been I'll say this has been one of the more difficult things for me to watch. Like, I there are things that I just won't I won't watch. I don't watch shameless because I'm I'm afraid that it'll, you know, hit a little too close to home at parts. You know, there are just some things that you know are gonna be really triggering and and and I just kind of avoid it. But this was something I that hit me in a different way just in the way in the intimacy that we're seeing and and and in the in the intimates intimacy we're seeing in the home and in the and in the in in our disagreements and in our fights and things like that. A judge Like, it's it's a lot. I'm really glad they've been putting domestic violence warnings on it because I think that that it's not something you would expect to need to like, you know, like, vampires are fighting at home. Does that need domestic violence warning? Yeah. It does. Yes. Because it's a vampire family. It's a vampire family fighting at home. So it absolutely that those relationships deserve that weight and and and that is what's happening.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. I've I've

Ashley: been able to show you this series a lot in my a lifetime. I feel like I'm really, like, having to, like, come to face a lot of things with it. It's kinda weird.

Joel: Alright. That I everybody's drink up because I agree with Ashley. I do think I do think Claudia loves L'Estat. I think that it is a far I think it's a complicated relationship. It is not ideal. It is it is abusive. I think and I think we've talked about this before too. As a parent with four kids, it's so interesting to see like the different personalities and and, you know, chemical concoctions of genes that that crop up in each one of them But what happens so many times is the child that you end up like butting heads with the most is the one that is most like you.

Ashley: I Exactly. That is I

Joel: think very, very common. And it's and and it comes from both sides. You see first of all, you often, like, won't stand down on the same sorts of points. So you come to an argument more often than than other pairings do. But also, it's about, like, you see the flaws in yourself in the other one.

Ashley: Mhmm. And

Joel: and it enraises you.

Ashley: Well, you're almost like, I know what stupid mistake you're about to make. You dumb dumb because I made it like twenty two years ago at three fifteen in the afternoon on November fourth. So just stop acting like me, please.

Joel: Yes. Yes. Oh my god. I okay. Anyway, I

Ashley: know it. It's it's so interesting. Love Lestat.

Joel: And I do think that there will be I do think that there will be mourning on her part as well at some point in season two for that loss. And I do wonder I mean, this show can go all sorts of places now. But I do wonder where her story goes. We're gonna get to that in a minute with with Easter eggs. One more thing. This should maybe be an easter egg, but I'm gonna put it here as Daniel begins to ask his questions. Oh. Which I love the way that he starts it. Well, that's nice and tidy, isn't it?

Ashley: Yeah. Well, it's really funny because we've talked about, like, offhand how, like, this poor this part of the book is such a nice tidy place to cut the story for the seasons. That's all I could think of. We were saying that I was so convenient. We repeatedly said how convenient. This this story line is ending right here.

Joel: It really so and I didn't realize this, but apparently the original pitch was that they were gonna do the the whole first book in one season, in an eight episode season. And then that got expanded to well, actually, do the first half of the book in seven. Actually, is what we want. The network asked And so that's that's where this came from. But, like, yeah, man, like okay. When he starts though, when he starts into that line of questioning, and I love the way that he brought it up, and he doesn't go immediately into I know Rashid was there in the seventies, etcetera, etcetera. He just starts down the path of Questioning or something. No. I'm not gonna let you say. I'm not gonna let you say. No. My favorite is that he's not gonna let it let Louis say that it was a murder. It wasn't a murder. You didn't kill him, Louis?

Ashley: Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you gotta

Joel: you gotta kill a fucking vampire. You gotta you gotta burn

Ashley: him. Burn him. And that's what I mean, that's that that is what the obvious I think that's the obvious thing that maybe him and Claudia's, like, fight or disagreement about as they leave town has to do with him him not being willing to really put an end to the start. Yeah.

Joel: I mean, it makes you wonder in season two is Claudia literally gonna always be looking over her shoulder thinking that his shots right around the court. Like, does she imagine that he did return, or does she think that's just maybe possible? Anyway, while that begins, as soon as the line of questioning starts, Where did the trash go, Louis?

Ashley: Oh, shoot. There's music that

Joel: begins to play. And the music that plays and I was fairly certain, but, actually, this is one of the reasons why our recording started so late tonight is I took an extra few minutes and I had to go back and forth. And then I got, like, three different opinions on it too. I was certain that I recognized that music. I said, I know this song from somewhere and I'm pretty sure, so I went and looked it up And I was like, yeah, this has gotta be the same. And I'm literally going back and forth. I'm on YouTube. I'm on YouTube. I'm on AMC. I'm playing this scene. I'm going back to this scene. What scene is it from? It's I believe that this is the case and I've gotten a couple of verifications now that it is the same piece of music. So I think I can safely say this. The piece of music that's playing is the moonlight sonata of --

Ashley: Oh, yeah. -- piece

Joel: of it in particular.

Ashley: Oh, yeah. That is

Joel: from that was played by L'Estat in

Ashley: the ninety four movie. Yeah. He

Joel: comes back as a swap start. And and there he is at the I don't think it's a you know, I think it's a harpsichord in the movie. But he's sitting at the harpsichord and he's playing the moonlight sonata slowly, much more slowly than it's actually written to be played, and it's come to be called on YouTube at least. Lestats Sonata. And lots of people have done a cover of it because it's a really cool, haunting piece of music. I guarantee you that that's the start sonata that plays under that whole where does the trash go, Louisa?

Ashley: Oh, so good.

Joel: Whole little monologue, which by the way, is very cool because that echoes as well what Lestat does in the movie. Right. Claudia says, how, you know, how did you come back? And he goes, there's so many, you know, creepy, crawly things that

Ashley: Yeah. You dumbass this through me and it's like, Mom. My God, do you know how many things live in the swamp if

Joel: you're immortal? So but here again, to take that to take that and turn it on its turn it on its head a bit and say, No, Louis did it on purpose. Louis didn't kill him. Louis just forced a divorce.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: You know? No, stay get out and stay out for realzies, for realzies. But, like, honestly, this last dot should not take fifteen years to get well enough to cross the the ocean and get over there to to Europe and catch up with these folks if that's what he wants to do. I don't know how season two is gonna play out. I don't know. Well, here, you know what, folks, we love the episode. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. From here on, we're gonna have to talk about Armand and things that happen at

Ashley: most of this point. So I also don't wanna know Before we hit that, I just wanna say the you so -- Yes. -- let the flesh instruct the mind. Hell, yes. Oh, yes. That was just I I was another line that I liked hearing when he what was it he told her? You irritate me.

Joel: Oh, god. That was the one that I liked. You irritate me. You're very present

Ashley: to me. You're very present to me. Me. It was such a moment right out of the ninety four film, but let the flesh and flesh to mind is such a great line. I loved hearing it. Hearing them say it to each other. It kind of gave them this moment that felt because it's such a phrase you know that they've said to each other, that it this moment of like, oh, we're a team again even though this is probably one of our last moments of being a team. I I

Joel: mean, it's not it all this all wasn't this honestly, this episode is I think probably the least sexual of all of the series. And yet, It's like that last time that you have sex with some like, you haven't actually broken up yet, but you've had the conversation that you both know this thing is over. And then you sleep together that last time before you actually say goodbye or stop start packing things. Like, this is this is the good buy sex. There there are those like it's it's bittersweet moments, man. It's like everybody's taken Polaroids in their in their brain hang on to?

Ashley: Yeah. It's the last thing. We talked about sales with giving before you murder your dad. Right? Yeah. I mean Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. Alright. So anyway, if you don't if you don't wanna hear any of our speculation, now is the time to bounce out. We love you.

Ashley: You're welcome.

Joel: Join us next week. We'll talk about our season recap. I

Ashley: may be in New Orleans. Oh,

Joel: oh, that's right. I forgot. You're yeah. You're headed down for your

Ashley: anniversary. I've we may. We haven't have it a hundred percent decided. But but, yeah, we you may get some reports and all and, hey, if there's anything you wanna see, anything I can take pictures of anything I can look for while I'm down there? Yeah. Post it. Just ask I'll I'll put a post in our Facebook group, and you can respond to it. So if there's anything if I do get down which if I don't now, I will I will buy February because I'm about to burn the world down if I don't get to New Orleans. But yeah. I

Joel: have you and I were talking about that

Ashley: off early. Absolutely.

Joel: Lily. I'm very, very much hungry for the city right now. Yes. So let's get to the speculation. Yeah. Here's my thing. I don't know I don't know with certainty. That Claudia is dead in this universe. Like, that's how much I am not sure what they're doing. If you ask --

Ashley: Oh, I think she is. -- money.

Joel: Oh, I I agree. First of first of

Ashley: I think you're not sure, though. It's totally gonna

Joel: ask. Louis has talked about her in the past tense. Right. Right? And secondly

Ashley: He's very they're precious with her blonde. About

Joel: yes. And the character of Claudia is inherently about her age and and the fact that she's not a woman and Bailey Bass is very very swiftly going to look like full on woman, not like a very tall, you know, teenager. Right. Right. Right. So, I mean, even if you rush this thing into production for season two, I think season two is going to be pushing it before she shows maturation physically, you know, on screen. Which is gonna be a problem.

Ashley: But I'm saying, our mind and Louis are together. So here's where I feel like we are. This is where I think we are, and I'm not sure, but this is kind of where I'm like like over the past couple of hours marinating in my brain. I think we're past the point of Claudia's death. We're past the point of of of of Let's stop being field to be having been involved with that. And now we're in that point where list like where Louie and Arman are together and spending their time together and and maybe you're at the tail end of that time together when Louie goes back to finally try to find Lestat again, and maybe he's having trouble finding him. He's hoping to use Daniel and this story to bring the stat back out, which will lead us into the the the modern day storyline of the vampire list at. That's what I think.

Joel: Here's something that had not occurred to me even I'd watched I've watched it three full times today, even through the third viewing, it had not occurred to me. Arman keeps the importing books. Out

Ashley: of everyone's reach.

Joel: It's effectively the scrapbook of his life. Yeah. Oh, very specifically, very specifically out of Louie's reach.

Joel: Louis can't fly.

Ashley: Yeah. I was wondering about that in the library. It was like, you had a fucked up library as this. Would the books weigh the hell up there without us without us sliding beauty of the beast ladder. It's a bullshit.

Joel: It's because they're only for a wand. I I wonder how much has our mind? Missled, Louis, manipulated, Lee? Or has he has he literally, like, has he mind wiped him in some way or influenced him in some for instance, I'm calling into question now. Okay. Everybody was all all up in arms because the scene the the beating between Louis and L'Estat in episode five, it very much has a ton of beats and even phrases and and parts of dialogue and stuff from fights between Listot and Armand in the vampire Listot. Including the fact that in that book at one point, Oman drops L'Estat off of a tower. And everybody was like, wow, it's really strange how they combine those things. What if that beating wasn't What if that meeting didn't happen? I mean to Louis. I mean, like, that's the kind of thing that I'm I wonder now I feel like everything in this season has been called into question effectively, and it is entirely possible that that Louis is being held hostage

Ashley: for subcontacts or conscious. I think he's ready to leave, but doesn't know how. And I think that he wants he knows he needs let's stop.

Joel: He's not to come kick on his ass. Thanks for that.

Ashley: Honestly think that that's where we're at. He's like, he's trying to use Daniel to wake up or to call a shot to him. I truly think that. Like, the yeah. A hundred percent. Like, I that that whole that whole end of the episode had a very, you know, fucking what is that the when you fall in love with your captors, kind of get a crap.

Joel: Yeah. There is definitely some of that going on. It felt like I

Ashley: just saved his life. Save me help. Blake Blake SOS. He's blinking SOS. But I loved him taking off his gloves and, like, taking out his eye. Like, I was like, okay. Good. Fuck you because Arman should have the most beautiful, intoxicating brown eyes on the planet. And I'm so glad

Joel: I do like those crazy guys. Yeah. Absolutely. I like the size a lot. And

Ashley: then he was wearing he was wearing clothes as the whole type. Yeah.

Joel: Arman's got a line there. He says first of all, Arman's got a couple of really good lines at the end. Like, I really like who what's a mediocre star to a five hundred and

Ashley: forty four grandpa buyer. Fuck you. Fuck you.

Joel: And then And I also liked I liked when Arman says Louie x out.

Ashley: Yes. What is that?

Joel: Times. Well, think about it. To rock up there. The end of what what does Louis do at the end of the interview with the vampire? He he cuts off several vampire's heads and then burns the entire theater.

Ashley: Well, they deserve that.

Joel: No. A hundred percent agree. A hundred percent agree. A hundred percent

Ashley: agree. Justice is different. The vampire worker worked out. No. It is true. It is true. This is Louie. And this is Louie, especially. Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. This Louie hung an alderman on a

Ashley: gate and, like, did It's not fucking around. So I I am I'm I'm here for a less eori version of Louis, a hundred percent of the time.

Joel: I I'm I'm just I am amazed that they have been able to construct something that can be so thoroughly full of the heart of the text itself. Yeah.

Ashley: And

Joel: those ands characters and situations

Ashley: -- Honoring. -- and imagery, honoring. Universe that she's built. Yes. Honoring the imagery. And So much girls. Right.

Joel: It feels like Anne, it looks like

Ashley: Anne, it

Joel: smells like Anne, etcetera. And yet, even for Hugh and Me. Who who have read all of these books many times over over the years have read the first five books recently, like in the past couple of years, we've won't do all of that of the first books of you and me. And yet still, Here we are.

Ashley: Wondering what's gonna happen next. I

Joel: literally I just told you, I'm not certain this Claudia is dead. Ryan has been dead for for forty It has

Ashley: a bit of claudia around here for twenty years. Yeah. Exactly.

Joel: Anyway, I mean, I mean, it's like, you know, in comics, they say, nobody stays dead except for, you know, what, Buckey and and Gwen Stacey. Except then they brought Buckey back to motherfuck. Good safety back now as well.

Ashley: There is there is no den.

Joel: Claudia Claudia stays dead. You know, Claudia Claudia dies in the end. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. Except I don't know. I don't know, man. Hey. And also, like, what who Okay. Who attacked who actually attacked Daniel in the seventies? Was it Louis and Arman stopped him? Or was it L'Estat that attacked Daniel just like in the movie at the end of the ninety four movie, and and it was Armando that stopped Let's start from killing Daniel back there. I don't know. I I'm just saying they could go all sorts of places. The only really the only the only nitpick that I have with this finale, honestly, that would have, I think, made me a little more satisfied as we ride off into the sunset here. Is I really wanted to see L'Estat. Post -- Post -- -- attack. -- post attack. -- get an arm out of the out

Joel: of the trunk. In the thing. So we know that he's alive.

Ashley: Yeah. We

Joel: know Daniel's not just theorizing. We know he lives.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: Or I say that. We know he lived then we don't know still whether he's alive and conscious in twenty twenty two. Right? Like, does he have any agency in the modern world or has he been in one of his mini commas. I don't know, you know. Anyway, I would have loved. I we we had speculated, are we gonna get, you know, a line, like, just like from the movie? Or are

Ashley: we gonna take is it tease. I assume

Joel: I need no introduction.

Ashley: Yes.

Joel: I really thought we would at least get like a fancy boot, you know, to come in coming off of a motorcycle or something. I'm

Ashley: kind of glad we didn't. Honestly, I'm kind of glad we didn't. I'm kind I'm kind of glad they're leaving us to stew in our thoughts because that's what the fucking books did. They just left you to sit there and think about what you had just read for the next five years. So I'm kind of I'm kind of excited that they have left us to think about what's gonna happen next. And not giving us big t's and t's. I mean, we did get a big t's, but I think most of us saw it coming.

Joel: Well, here's one t's. We definitely did get AMC announces last week that they're going to start dropping these cast diaries on AMC Plus weekly and I got all excited about it. I looked at the first episode. It's an hour and fourteen minutes long. I was like, oh my goodness, the riches. I watched the first I don't know, ten seconds or so. It's Raul and Jones speaking. I'm like, this is gonna be fantastic. No friends. It's it's just the full So it's episode one. It's the full episode. Except several times throughout it, they'll stop. And for about thirty seconds, you'll get some commentary from

Ashley: Oh, it's like some Oh, that's a bummer.

Joel: It's a little bit of a bummer. I mean, I will say this.

Ashley: Hey, look. I like some

Joel: coffee. Watch anyway. We're

Ashley: gonna do a rewatch anyway. Yeah. That's

Joel: what I was gonna say. We're gonna do a rewatch anyway, so I'm probably going to at least do my first rewatch that way so that I get the commentary as well. But I am a little bummed. Both in both ways, I'm a little bummed that it's not more than that when we thought it might be full episodes even. And I'm also a little bummed that they don't give you that content outside of the episode in some way so that you can access it quickly if you'd like it. Anyway, that's what that is. I have one more Easter that I did want to mention here. Oh, okay. So the right before the feast takes place, L'Estat and Claudia and Louis have everybody lined up around the table, and they're telling the story about the philosopher's stone. Lestat's given this excellent backstory.

Ashley: Oh, yeah. This is

Joel: all, you know, how it's come down to him. Really like that. I do wonder though, is that possibly a Magnus reference that I don't quite get So Magnus was a the Magnus, of course, the the Lusatz maker. He was an alkyman. Before he stole the blood from the coven under Lei's Innosons. And so I wonder I I'm not sure about the time period. I'm trying to think, like, how

Ashley: old Whoa. Well, that could yeah. Like, a little tongue and cheek reference to that, to Magnus.

Joel: Yeah. I think that might have been a reference to Magnus, the bookseller that's referenced in that story. I wonder if it's not. Anyway, regardless, I like it anytime you bring Alchemy in. And so so the idea that they were gonna do you know, they were gonna share with them this Alchemy

Ashley: session that you could got confused. Live

Joel: forever. I I dug that. I also like that that then that brings in Tom, you know, and brings him on or his brings list out on him that sets off our whole horror scene earlier. I am so looking forward to what comes next from this

Ashley: scene. Oh my goodness. You guys.

Joel: I really don't know. I really don't know what is what is gonna happen. They've got

Ashley: I don't either. Like I like said, when we first started off, I was like, like, my biggest question is, what the fuck time period? Are we and what does it have and what are we doing? Like, now I feel completely disconnected from reality. I do have my idea that I think is accurate, but also I don't think I'm right.

Joel: That's what this

Ashley: should give you the best context to lose the fuck. I'm probably not right.

Joel: I am I'm super excited to share this continued journey with with all of you. I am super excited to talk to you about May fair which

Ashley: is just

Joel: a little while. A couple of schedule updates before we wrap things up for tonight. So next week, we will have another regular episode. We'll do like a season recap episode. Some some some of your feedback too. By the way, I've got a a thread that is up on our Facebook group. I'll I'll bump that as well and remind everybody about it. But if you've got some speculation or some just general, like, I hear my

Ashley: thoughts on this If you need to air your grievances, that's a place for it too. Exactly.

Joel: Exactly. And then after that, we're gonna take a couple of weeks off as the cast diaries are not full episodes. We're we're not really gonna have enough to talk about there. We're we've got a a witching hour episode coming -- Yeah. -- sometime between now and January, and then we'll be back with you in early January for weekly episodes about the Mayfair, which is, I say early January. Well, yeah, the first episode drops on, like, the sixth. So, yeah, it'll be, like, right after right after New Year's, we'll be we'll be back up and running with Wednesday.

Ashley: My husband's birthday. Right. And then The sixth. Is it really Yeah.

Joel: See, look at that. So we started back with with with regular episodes here on my birthday with

Ashley: And then it's Fredsberg at

Joel: least birthday on we'll leave

Ashley: it back with

Joel: Mayfair, which is that's fantastic. Any final thoughts on this one, Ashley, before we we say good night?

Ashley: I am just You know, this has been an insane ride. This episode was was everything I really hoped it would be as far as, like, spectacle and I mean, this is just theatrical as hell. I love it. I'm psyched. Ready for the next round. But also really, really excited to go back into a rewatch now. And so I'm I'm excited to see what you guys think about the full season. And what you what you wanna talk about, what you need to discuss when we do our recap, and then yeah. Thanks for hanging out with us. We're unbelievably lucky we get to talk about this crap with you guys.

Joel: I I'll say this. I we're gonna try to do both in between Mayfair witches and and the return of of season two of interview with the Vampire. But I think we're gonna have to read the Vampire Armand first before we get to Pandora in case we don't have time for both.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we're gonna too. No. It was gonna

Joel: be so

Ashley: important. Very no. We're gonna do both. We're doing both. But we're we're gonna do our wand first, but we're doing both. We're not skipping anything. We're reading all these damn books, Joel. We're not skipping a damn book. This is what we what we did for five years before they gave us a show.

Joel: We're even gonna read Vittorio eventually.

Ashley: Damn right. I'm gonna read it. I'm gonna be so excited about it.

Joel: All I remember about that when they're something about I thought he sees visions of light or something, I think, at the end of it. I can't I can't remember the specifics. I think there's visions of that one. Although, our mind is a vampire who has visions as well throughout his life. So folks, so much to speculate about, so much to think about. I cannot believe, Ashley, we have we have a show. It's a hit show. Like, season two is already coming back. People demanding season three announcement already. Yeah. It's like

Ashley: It's so exciting. What

Joel: a time to be allowed? What a

Ashley: time I think we are the luckiest nerds alive. Like, if you like Lord of the Rings, if you like Star Wars, if you like interview with the vampire, you like the vampire chronicles, There's so you like Marvel, Jesus Christ, there's so much great content for those of us that went to Star Trek Conventions before it was cool.

Joel: Oh my god. A million, please.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. What a time to be alarmed? Here's

Joel: again my

Ashley: here's

Joel: again my suggestion to watch Andor if you're not

Ashley: currently lost. This is Christ. You guys, it's so good. Good. Oh, it's so good. It's

Joel: it got even better this this episode. Like, this last episode was I'm like, I literally told Kelly I was like, if my favorite vampire wasn't gonna die this week, this would have been my favorite episode of television.

Ashley: I I had to take a we took a a week off were behind because I was like, I just can't I'm not I can't deal with this kind of a downer right now. Now.

Joel: You'd be like, look, I can't I can't go to the Afrezza state prison in a in a --

Ashley: Yeah. But it's --

Joel: space empire. My

Ashley: god. It's so good and the casting, and that is just, of course, as delicious as it was in fucking rogue one, man.

Joel: Again, like, what an embarrassment of riches. Alright.

Ashley: We are so such lucky people.

Joel: Folks, thank you all for making this such a fun ride for us and and for hanging out in our Facebook group and our Twitter account, you can find us at at articulate covenants. Search our articulate covenant on Facebook or find the links in the show notes too. We'll be back with you next week to do our season one recap for our cable viewers. Don't forget, you get a double dose next week. So when you finish listening to this one, you've got another episode already for that season recap waiting on you too. Until then, we've been your hosts.

Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.

Joel: I'm Joel Sharpton, and we are the articulate couple. Thanks for listening to the Articulate Cover. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your AmRise loving friends.