Above and Beyond is Probably Too Far - Ashley and Joel Discuss S1E4 of The Mayfair Witches, “Curiouser and Curiouser”
Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. I had something cute that I don't know how to say before we actually started this week. I was pleased with the way that that worked last week, Daniela. I have gotten my cute little clip. We're just gonna get into it. It'll come up. Welcome to the Articulate Cove and we are your hosts. I'm Joel.
Ashley: I'm Ashley.
Joel: And we are the Articulate Cove and Thank you for joining us once again. We are the original fan community and podcast for interview with the Vampire and all of Anne Rice's immortal universe as brought to us by AMC and AMC Plus. In particular, right now, we're talking about the Macpher, which is the series isn't as season episode
Ashley: two. Or the begrudging Comcast. Yeah. There you go. The begrudging Comcast of the of the Mayfair, which is right now. We're having a we're having a time. We're having a journey here.
Joel: Well, I'll say this, Ashley. I had things to say and a desire to say them about this week's episode. So maybe that's moving in the right direction. Let's put it like that.
Ashley: Oh, hell yeah. Absolutely. No. I'm having a great time with it. It's just it's like, who are we and what what are we doing?
Joel: So we are speaking about the fourth episode of the first season of Mayfair, which is from AMC and AMC Plus. This one's called Curiosure and Curiosure and and we're gonna dive right into it. Spoilers ahead. If you haven't seen the episode, I always suggest watching the episode. As as I've heard, at least some of our listenership watches it twice like we do before we get into it. I don't know that I would suggest that for for normal people. But honestly, Ashley, this week took twice
Ashley: -- Right. -- get
Joel: into my head. For some reason, I felt you made a decision. I feel you were drugged. I I felt like I was cloudy -- Yes. -- cloudy headed or something. Something was going on.
Ashley: Well, you know, and curious, sir, and curious, sir, this is a definite obvious reference to to Alison Wonderland. So and and there's definitely some some falling down, some pretty deep rabbit holes happening to our characters. In this episode. So I think that I mean, I think that they're leading us somewhere, and I'm interested to go there. I'm just not sure what's going on.
Joel: My two favorite most book accurate moments for me, so far in the series. Both came in this episode. So that's some high praise. We're gonna get to both of them. Let's just jump in right from the very start And again -- Yes. -- very interesting opening scene. We've talked about this last week especially. I mentioned it seems like every episode opens with a very interesting moment and closes with a very interesting moment. This week, they held that absolutely on the opening end. The witch funeral very, very good. Yeah. I wanted more of it. Very cool. Us with this Suzanne story. I want more.
Ashley: It has some real mid summer vibes to it to me. Like, you know, even though it was really dark and and and and kind of and very more involved and kind of scary, it it doesn't have that same position that midsummer did with all the flowers and everything happens in bright daylight. But it it had that sort of thing, like, this is the real this is the real funeral. This is where you can really really grieve her and show how you feel, show her how you feel, show the universe, how you feel about this loss.
Joel: It would it's super interesting to me that we're now four episodes in. We've gotten these flashbacks, you know, throughout. But we're we're halfway through the first season. And we still don't have even a hint of Lascher in these flashbacks. Of course, you know, the
Ashley: story of Susan
Joel: is inextricably tied to the story of Lascher. And all we've gotten is the kind of faceless, voiceless whispers in one episode so far from her. Yeah.
Ashley: This is one of the things that makes me kind of wonder if we're going to get all the way through this entire book this season. I definitely don't I mean, obviously, we're not gonna get through all the past the past lives of the May Fair Witches, but I don't even know that we're gonna make it only through the book. Actually. The because they're they're really pacing themselves out pretty nicely to not, you know, go beyond their source material as far as, you know, storyline what's given. I mean, I've gone beyond the source material in so many delicious ways. But, I mean, in that particular, like, you know, they're not they're not game game of Thronesing themselves, which is getting ahead of their source material in such a fucked up way that you muck up the ending so badly.
Joel: So how did you read the the the switch there? So we get the Suzanne seeing and if it switches immediately to Rowan, which is a common thing. We've seen that again and again. But this time, Rowan is writhing an ecstasy over Ciprian. I got super excited. I was like, oh, the mind melding last episode has led to some body melding. I'm in for it. No.
Ashley: Yeah. We just jumped right in. Is it
Joel: a is it a lasher vision? Because it it he eventually turns it it's sipper in at first and then it's lasher on top of her. Is how did you read that? Is that lasher giving her that vision or is it just a dream? I
Ashley: kinda went as good. It was about this, you know, intense sexual experience with sit. And then last year, catches onto her having this fantasy and bust into it. Mhmm.
Joel: That makes sense. We get a a very interesting line from SIPRIAN there. That made me really think about his backstory and and whether or not we're gonna get it. I don't know. She's going through the room and she's sort of picking up objects. Like, who is this guy? Who is SIPrian Grieve? And he makes the point that they're not his objects. He he gets people to bring him things that contain good memories. And he says, other people's memories are cleaner What happened to Cyprian to give him his gift? That's assuming that he got it after a near death experience like Michael did in the book Michael Curry is drowned. He's he's he's dead, actually. And Rowan revives him. And that in that moment, he's given this gift of, you know, visions through touch. There's a word for that. It's not telekinesis or or but, you know, there's a there's a similar word for that. I don't know what it is, psychokinetic or something like that, I think. Anyway, I'm assuming that SIPRIAN, especially with that line, there's some, you know, danger, damage, sadness in his past. I really get to see that. If you're gonna flesh out this character particularly if they follow-up on, you know, my guess last week that they might give us some of the wrong side of the tracks New Orleans life you know, upbringing whatever through him and his sister. I hope that's what this is aiming at. I I'm excited to see. That's honestly one of the places where they've invented things then I'm excited to see what they do with it. And
Ashley: interested to see yeah. Yeah. No. I totally agree that I'm very interested in this backstory. I also think that if you're gonna ditch you know, to to what feel like kind of important characters to combine into this into this new character, it is important that we feel as connected to SIP as we do to Aaron and to Michael, I think. That's really important. Because you need that buy in a little bit from the from the book readers if you're gonna get rid of two kind of beloved characters. So the way to do that is to make us give us shit about him and love him a little bit the way we do Aaron and Michael.
Joel: Boy, I well, I will say this this episode did give me at least one character, which I do care about. I'm excited to see where they go. We're gonna get to that in a minute. We get to the funeral. And the funeral brings something that I wanna point out because this is one of those scenes that I mentioned. I I think it's incredibly book accurate and I love the way that they did it. Harry Hamlin, at the funeral, cutting Deidre's hair off. It's probably my favorite moment of the entire series so far. It is incredibly accurate to the book. This is something that happens. I'm not going to spoil for those that haven't read the book. What the
Ashley: haircut is
Joel: for. But this is very much a Mayfair book thing. I'm super excited that they kept it. I'm assuming that it's for the same reason. And if not, I'll ride it later in the season.
Ashley: Yeah. No. I I caught I totally caught that too and felt the same way. I was like, I'm also I love I'm really enjoying this version of Cortland. Harry Hamlin is hilarious. He's fantastic. He's ridiculous. He's over the top. He's everything that they've turned this character into. He also mentioned his father Julian in this episode. So we got Julian mentioned by name for the people who were really worried about with worried about a hundred percent Julian erasure. I don't think we're looking at that now. Hopefully.
Joel: Yeah. I think based on what the executive producers, particularly the overall immoral universe producers have said, I'm getting the sense now that they're holding back on most of them mayfair history because they plan on telling that in some some spin offs. They maybe even plan more --
Ashley: Yeah. -- first
Joel: spin offs in the short term than than vampire spin offs interestingly. I I wonder if that's about, like, Raul and knowing, like, we don't kill the Golden Goose. Like, let's let's build a firm foundation and you can you can throw some leaves off over there and see what sticks. But over
Ashley: here building
Joel: a a a a thick stock first before we go anywhere. Anyway, Julian exists though in this universe. Thankfully. Thank God. Yes. So we did or at least we can get his story in some way at some point down the road. And so Excellent. Yes. And I'll agree with you on Harry Hamlin too. I, you know, I made fun of him early on because he he made fun of --
Ashley: Oh, he's
Joel: absurd. -- this this book and he is very over the top. And I I do still I do find it interesting how they've combined several different characters to sort of figure out how to put this archetype of a character in the modern day story line to pair with Rowan, but it does occur to me looking back or like you know, imagining the alternative world where we have a more true to book adaptation. What interesting male figure of that generation would be in this show. Honestly, Aaron Lightner would
Ashley: There's not
Joel: one. No. There's
Ashley: not Aaron Lightner. Exactly. And Portland. You've
Joel: got you've got, like, Pierce is alive in the mon in in the modern day in the book, but Pierce is boring.
Ashley: He's so boring. He's like, the the the, like, follow the rules, very good very good Mayfair sun, you know. He's
Joel: just a woman.
Ashley: Though we know him to be fucking creep. Like, Cortland isn't even that interesting on paper, really. I mean, he's a gross guy, but he's not nearly as interesting as they've made this this this new kind of version of the character. But, yep, here's a fucking lawyer. There's some of the families boring. They're
Joel: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, basically, Julian is the only interesting male character in the family or or at least in the, you know, there isn't one in the modern day. So I do, in retrospect, I sort of understand where they were going with that one, and I'm gonna give it to them, especially because I am like you. I'm a joint hearing Hamlin in the role. BTW, if you don't generally listen to the official podcast, of course, we want you to listen to ours first. But if you don't generally listen to the official podcast, I'd suggest checking it out this week. I'm only about halfway through it myself, but Harry Hamlin is the guest on the most recent episode. So some some good content there, I think. The other scene, though, that I loved so much from this episode comes right after that scene, the rose petals at the funeral Lascher
Ashley: family is open
Joel: and fills the church with rose petals. This is not from the book by the way, but the idea of the rose petals, which we've seen earlier, with Deidre and the schoolgirls. And that flashback from episode one, that is in the book. That's
Ashley: one of Lascher's sweet moves. It's one of his -- Right. Yeah.
Joel: Well, and it's it's very true to the character of Lascher from the book.
Ashley: It's one of his one that's Helly Woos and yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. This was a this was a really it was it was lovely. That was a lovely moment. And and, I mean, earlier when you got a a hint of it, was really great too, but to see it kind of kind of in in in almost almost like a a different version of the the witch the death of the witch storm, you know. Was really was really beautiful to see.
Joel: Ashley, let's talk about SiP and the Telemasca for a minute here. They are they are they are very worried about Rowan and her safety. And yet they leave her at the funeral just all by herself?
Ashley: All by herself? And then let her just again, this woman does not know how to wander around New Orleans safely. We're just gonna let her wander around. At least she's not wearing her pajamas this time. But my God, you're gonna let her wander over to that house? Because you know she's gonna end up at that damn house?
Joel: I just I don't understand it. So they sent so first of all, we know that SIP's supervisor is in New Orleans. He's around, but also he sent that entire security team to do whatever it would do the voodoo on the outside of the building right of the building. A few episodes ago. Like, just send two of those dudes to hang out at the funeral with her. Like, you just stay in the back. Like like anybody who lives in New Orleans that's attending the big night airfare anyway, I just I don't understand what they're doing with the organization here. But that leads into the next couple of scenes. So first and foremost, the Tallamasca has has run down the person who killed d draw. So
Ashley: Oh, we're wrong. This was cool.
Joel: Season long who'd done it. I liked it too mostly, although I've got a couple of nitpicks. He we we first see him being tortured. It seems like by an unseen presence, he's screaming. And running and falling down all over himself almost gets hit by a car a couple of times.
Ashley: It looks like a five plus.
Joel: Seemingly Oh, absolutely. And it looks like he's about to jump off, like, the the --
Ashley: Absolutely. The parking garage. --
Joel: this parking garage. Yeah. And he's tackled by the a couple of Tallahasco members. It's almost immediately clear. And then they take him to, I guess, the the chapter house. So he's restrained and they bring in SiP to do a quote unquote cold read on him.
Ashley: Their interrogation rooms Yeah.
Joel: Which by the way, this is I did like the design of this. So far, I don't really like the look of the Tallamasca, but I did like this room.
Ashley: Oh, yeah. No. It was it was interesting
Joel: to see a little bit more of the guts of the Tallahassee. So but they bring in sort of, I guess, SIP's boss's boss we're we're led to believe this person is very important. The line is, all Brex here. He wants to work. He wants to watch you work. This is a completely invented character. I went and double checked. This character does not exist in the alpha battery or or in any of the you know, vampire companion or witch's companion books that I that I own. Seems like this totally invented. I like this actor, by the way. I I had to look it up. I couldn't think of his name Dennis, and I'm probably mispronouncing the last name, Bousocares. Dennis Bousocares is the guy's name. I like this actor just fine. But it occurs to me though, okay, fine, Invena character, I guess, there's not enough talent masking members to to include by name. Sure. But even if you're gonna invent him, you couldn't make this guy British, this old guy who supposedly was one of the bosses.
Ashley: No. I I mean, yeah. It's so strange. It's it's such a different version of this group than I've ever imagined before. It's just absolutely absolutely bizarre to me. It's so very different than how I imagined the Tallahassee. Right now, it feels it's got, like, a a cross between, like, a an ex Files meets the first season of of agents of shield, and it's so strange to me.
Joel: Okay. You know what it makes me think of? Ashley, and this is and honestly, so far, it's not even as good as this, but this is the closest to me. Did you ever watch the Highlander TV series?
Ashley: Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. The watchers
Joel: I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure they're called the watchers. Alright. The watchers organization in the Highlander TV series is literally a Tallamasker rip off. You gotta you do look at the dates. The the witching hour had come out like a year or two before the release of the first season of the Highlander TV series. And it is straight up the Tallamasca. They renamed them They made them about immortals instead of, you know, immortal sword fighters instead of vampires. But it's it's the it's the same sort of thing. They watch and observe, they don't interact, don't interfere. They do. Except they totally do. Yeah. And, anyway, I loved the watchers, but they were always like a cheap cable version of the Tallamaska. Well, this is like a cheap cable version of the watchers is what it feels like so far. I I'm I'm sad. A little bit. I'm
Ashley: well, because in my vision for, like and we've talked about this, like, in kind of in our vision for this whole expanded world, the idea of, like, tales of the telemascas sounds like a fucking good time to me. But now they've done such strange things to it. I'm not sure that I'm even that that would be even feasible direction for them to go into, you know?
Joel: I mean, I guess, again, I guess if if we wanna I mean, one thing that they might have done here by not using a named Telemasca member from the books or even giving him a British that. They've still we maybe we're in, like, literally just the New Orleans branch. We've only seen, like, the Louisiana representatives of the Tallamaska. And so the a team has not even showed up yet.
Ashley: I do feel that. I do think that is true. I do think that we're kind of seeing this this very, like, a slice of it. I don't I don't think that we're we're we're seeing the full expanded universe if it were of of the telemarket. I really do feel like everything we've seen has been sort of related to this one New Orleans location, this one New Orleans mother house, and I think that that that that's that that's kind of been a limited view we've had so far. So that I definitely think there's chances for us to expand and and to explore different things and for it to be the a bit of a richer world like we hope it will be.
Joel: From your lips to God's ears, and Raleigh John's ears and Mark Johnson's ears and ever installed the air spalding's ears and all of the people that can make
Ashley: I'll just start following them around and whisper creepily and and behind them as we walk right behind them.
Joel: These books are actually really good. You should read them. Or is it really great
Ashley: in the book? Maybe you wanna tell some of
Joel: that? Yeah. Right. So we get the scene, though, with Deidra's killer. Who where it's I mean, it's clearly he's possessed by Lascher. Oh,
Joel: Lascher is sort of, like, moving him around this really neat herky jerky special effect that they've got going on. That was actually pretty cool. And then eventually, Lascher kills and breaks his neck and then leaves the body. We get to see a pretty cool effect of of Jack Houston standing up out of the body through SIPRIAN's eyes kind of as he as he touches the body to check for pulse. I dig all of that except, like, Lascher doesn't work that way. And I want so in the books and here here is even for non book readers. This is a little bit not spoiler, but some of the backstory that you get in the files of the Mayfair family is you get some ideas of the experimentation that members of the Mayfair family have done with Lasher over the years to see how he could take physical form. In particular,
Ashley: there's some fucked up shit.
Joel: Oh, it's crazy. And I and I think we're likely to get there. But What's
Ashley: Marguerite? It's Marguerite that
Joel: I think she's the primary one. Yes. That does it over and over again. Yes. That does it in corpses and and living flesh as well. But in all of the so you end up with, like, these test tube blashers, basically, and there's, like, literally heads and jars and things of where he's sort of, like, half transposed the form into his own. But I wonder though if it if it's possible for him to marry and let this guy and torture him like this, if he can just snap his neck, I I mean, it feels like those experimentations would have gone farther that he would I I don't know. It feels like that's gonna hamstring them on the overall arc of what Lascher wants to do and how this book
Ashley: That's why he needs to do
Joel: it. Russia. Because
Ashley: if he could be just be in a body and make the body do what he wants it to do, though I guess part of it was that he couldn't really control the guy. He was having a really hard time, you know, controlling him.
Joel: Yeah. Maybe it was it's literally there's another personality there struggling. But that makes me wonder, okay, if you if you found a body that was brain dead, you know. Could he just take that body and walk off with it? I don't know. I mean, and and maybe that's something that the show is building too as well. So I'll try to give him a bit of a bit of a doubt there because overall, I did like that same.
Ashley: But it's good though. It was so cool and fun. Right. Break your own neck in front of me. That's crazy shit. I love it. I will always train that. I I don't know why that sort of gag. I'm like, whoa. You killed yourself that way.
Joel: That scene also that gives us this hint and something's going on within the Tallamaska, I guess, Albrack, the guy who's come in to to watch SIP work. I think clearly has something to do with what's going on here. Are we gonna have infighting inside the Tallamaska, a a coup attempt or something?
Ashley: I think clearly because the wiping of the elevator had to have been done by someone with some sort of psychic power. That could not have just been done by Parlana, that could not have been done by Lascher. I think that had to have been done by, you know, someone with a child basket. I just don't see how it could have been anyone else.
Joel: So so SIPRIAN brings that up and says, you know, I think there's a supernatural element here. And Albrecht's answer was Well, thank you so much. You've gone above and beyond. And Kelly immediately snorted, sitting beside me. My wife started and said, Yeah. When you tell somebody that they've gone above and beyond, it really means you've gone too far. You've
Ashley: gone too far. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, well, look how well you've done. We'll see reassigned to the, you know, to the
Joel: to the hinterland.
Ashley: Exactly. Exactly.
Joel: Alright. I wanna move on to the character that I mentioned earlier who I've kind of fallen for In the episode, I was intrigued in the in the follow-up of the episode as I did a little research, I I fell in love. I wanna talk about Josephine. Cortland's Yes.
Joel: So Josephine or Jojo, apparently, she goes by Personally, Cortland calls her Josephine directly in the episode, but I think later we're gonna see her go by Jojo. Where did this character come from? I was sort of confused. I'm like, why? Did Joe Joe doesn't exist to the books. First of all, as we've mentioned, Cortland isn't even alive in the modern day story line. It's it's pierced his to send that. But there's no Joe Joe isn't as a niece or a daughter or granddaughter or anything that I can remember or that I can find. But I immediately was like, well, this is interesting. She's got SaaS. She's got great style. Clearly, they're doing something with this character. What's the deal? Found a great article which is gonna be linked in the show notes by the way. Jen Richards is the actor's name. Jen is a trans actor, and she in the article that I've linked to, I think it's great, Jen is a book fan. In particular, there she's a Mayfair fan. And she says that she had trouble with the first few episodes of the show because of how much they deviate from the book story and she's
Ashley: Oh, what happened?
Joel: Decide in her mind and go, this is, like, inspired by the Mayfair which is as
Ashley: opposed to
Joel: direct adaptation. And I I'm like, okay. Okay. Wait a minute. You've got my attention. But she goes on in in in the interview, they discussed the character of of Josephine. They discussed whether or not Jojo or Josephine is actually trans in the show. And apparently, it's not a topic that comes up at all in this season one. And then there's a discussion of that. You know, do does queer representation in media have to be a plot thread? Or or is it important also to have characters whose --
Ashley: Just see. -- transness
Joel: or queerness exactly just is part of your existence and not even remarked upon. In particular, Jen's head canon is that Jojo is trans, that it happened a long time ago and that all the people that we see them interact with in the show are family members basically. And long time, you know, Justin is well known in the area, and ever anybody who had a problem with this long since got over it, her money, her authority, her charisma, and charm have more than, you know, paved over any issues that arose. And it's just the way that things are. But in particular, Jen's idea, and again, the article goes into this in more in-depth. But her idea is that she was terrified to make the transition because of her family and her father's status in particular, and yet when she came out. Courtland was very welcoming and affirming and, you know, lovingly responded to it all. And so that connection when her father accepted her, when she didn't really expect him to, has sort of tied her to her to him in a way that makes her overlook some of his more nefarious qualities, which I think is a really interesting backstory, deep backstory. I hope they hold it. The one thing that occurred to me though, thinking through that all and reading through that all, the nature of Cortland's Association to the rest of this family. And again, we've hinted at it. I think we've mentioned it in previous times that don't want to mention specifics in the middle of the episode here as things unravel. But the nature of his association to the rest of the family, if that's where they go, if if Jojo is trans and they do have that backstory of him being understanding and accepting, it makes it makes four really interesting potential storylines as Josephine understands some of the things that her father is responsible for. And also, it it could potentially have interesting comments to make about Cortland himself. We've talked already about how Julian you know, being the lone male member of the family who sees Lascher or is sort of considered the witch of his generation In this show, they've given Cortland, at least some of those qualities. He is clearly connected to the mystic side of the family. He does see Lascher and clearly has seen Lascher in the past spoken to him even. So knowing that, knowing the family's ties to the powers to femininity. I mean, again, makes me wonder, oh, Cortland, is this, like, maybe in a different generation, would he have maybe considered himself trans? Is that does he see some of his own gender fluidity perhaps in his daughter's storyline, and that's why he's so excited. Anyway, I think there's interesting things to go in there that the book never really goes into, especially in the modern day, that have the potential to come out through this character and their presentation on the show. So I got my fingers crossed for that that it's not just wasted effort. Clearly gins throwing in her a game to the show. And and I am so glad to know there, at least, as one example, we ask the other day, like, where's the book nerd on set? Well, Jim Richards. Was
Ashley: one of the big nerds on set. I mean I've got one. Thank god. Yeah. I
Joel: How much voice she has in the writer's room? I I would I would not guess that. But anyway, No.
Ashley: Probably not much. But I was immediately, like, captivated by by her performance. She I mean, I was completely drawn to that character. And, of course, like you, I was I was trying to figure out, like, is this an amalgamation character? Is this an brand new character? Like, what what's what's still with Josephine? I loved how she took because she's you can tell she's very much of her dad's side. On her dad's side, she was like, Are you sure you want Carlotta to be the one that is the one that's teaching her about our family? And she swoops right in there and takes Rowan under her wing, gets her cocktail, picks her to the quiet dining room where she can show her all the portraits and talk about, you know, talk about her, you know, that her her what she's going to inherit the inheritance and everything, be sure about the designee and all that she's now in control of what Rowan's learning at that time And I think that I loved that move. And I loved I loved her shout out to Mary Beth as being her favorite. I thought that was kind of a cool thing with with a vibe of of this trans actor performing this role and very best being a character who loved to who loved to dress as a man and and and experience life through that eye. So I was I was in love with those few scenes. I thought it was fantastic. Those are the things like you said that made me really excited as book reader who is like this is and even though it's a new character, it made me excited as a book reader.
Joel: Yeah. Very much so. Very much so. Alright. That was maybe the most praise we've given we've given this show in one segment. Solidly so far. So kudos does. Thank you, Jen, for helping us find it. We're gonna transition, though, because I got a bone to pick. I wanna talk about tessa. Alright. First of all, Ashley, I knew that I needed to watches for this episode because I had gone and started reading the comments in our Facebook group, which by the way links in the show notes for our Facebook group and our Discord community. If Facebook's not your bag, join either one of those great conversations going on all week long about this show, about interview with the Vampire, about the books themselves, about Anne Rice, and fandom, and general, lots of cool stuff, lots of cool people you should join us. By the way, like, twenty something members added to the Facebook group last week. Was lost. I kind of thought. I kind of thought this show was was died down. Maybe we'd we'd already built our audience. Thank you guys, and thanks to
Ashley: have you all aboard. Sure. Hanging out.
Joel: But Thanks for Come on. Tessa. The folks mentioned in the comment thread, Tessa equals Mona. Tessa why are they changed to Mona to Tessa? It's got to be the same care etcetera etcetera. And I was like, wait a minute. Who, Tessa? I don't even remember a Tessa. And I was at first, I was like, they mean Josephine. Right? But Josephine's not Mona. Josephine's Cortland's daughter. That that can't be Mona Mona's further down the line, etcetera, etcetera. Anyway, I'm running these things and I'm like, wait, wait, you got to go back and watch this episode again. So I did. I watched the whole thing again. And sure enough, there she is. She comes through to at the start of the funeral. Cute little blonde girl. Yeah. And she starts to talk to Rowan immediately. Her mom shoes her away, don't get on your social justice high horse, not not today. And then later, when everybody's clouding around Rowan, tessa comes up starts talking, and her mom actually introduces the subject of the the burned women. So again, Tessa's gonna be involved in this which hunt storyline. Clearly, also at the funeral and I I I didn't see this one the first time, but she comes up to lay flowers for Deidre and her photo is taken. Tesla's photo is taken by --
Ashley: Yeah. -- the street.
Joel: From the coroner's office that that was in the previous episode talking about witches. So I they're building towards something there. But Tessa I mean, she's just got to be the Mona character. Otherwise, why would you have two girls of that same generation Mona would be younger at this point in the in the book. Younger. Yeah. We talked about how they were gonna age her up. She'd be in high school at least, if not older. This is the Mona character. I
Ashley: I suspect I
Joel: don't understand why they changed the name. Finger up a
Ashley: little bit. I prefer the major
Joel: Oh, I'm with you. No.
Ashley: Because, again, that story line
Joel: Oh, it gets nasty.
Ashley: Kinda kinda kinda Iky. So so it's it's nice that they've that they've, you know, done or suggested. But yeah, what bother changing the character name? Like, I don't care what her hair color is. I like, but why bother changing the name?
Joel: Well, especially when she is one of, if not the main character of the second book in the series. I mean, Mona becomes well, I don't wanna anyway, she's a super important character. Yeah. Crosses over with the vampire chronicles down the road. Mona matters in a way, maybe even don't hate me for it, that Rowan does it in the long term, honestly. Like Rowan is a character like Louis, If you wanted to, you could sideline him after season one or two.
Ashley: Yeah. No
Joel: one could ride off into the sunset and never appear again. Even though she does appear in the books later, but you could. She's not so integral to the ongoing narrative that you would need her Mona is. And not only that, Mona is roughly our age. I I thought I I had to go look this up. I was thinking, based on when the books came out, that Mona was roughly our same generation. You and I talked to you when we when we did the episode about interview with the vampire, Kirsten Dunston and I are the same age. So her version of Claudia was my age when I went to see that movie. And so
Ashley: -- Right.
Joel: -- all of the, like, strange hints at sexuality there and her own burgeoning adulthood as she develops. All of that was what I was feeling at the time too. I was super identified with her portrayal. It still hits home for me. Mona was that in the books for the Mayfair witches when I got especially in Lascher because she has such a big character there. I don't even think she appears in in the witching hour. But in Lasher, the portrayal of Mona was so compelling and she was my age. The way that she looked at this world was enticing and, like, she understood the power and she understood the mysticism and she she understood the danger too. It seemed at least. And and was like just grabbing it all by the balls like Julian, which is a character that we've already talked about we like a lot, you know. Right. I don't know, man. Mona in the books is Blanche DeVero of the Mayfair family. Right? Like, she makes a promise. She makes a promise to herself at the age of twelve that she's gonna screw every single male mayfair member mayfair family member. And I think she basically accomplishes that like the end of it too.
Ashley: It's a real weird goal. It's a real it's a real weird thing to shoot for. You could be anything you wanna be. You could fuck all your Oh, gorgeous. Yikes. Well, but she's also in the book. She's also, you know,
Joel: where I can always know that. Sorry. No. But she's she's in, you know, she's fascinated with Ophelia from from Hamlet and she's Oh, yeah. No. I don't know. She's like super artistic and super intelligent and she's she's got a head for business that ends up anyway.
Ashley: She gets the way this family is she Ashur, she gets it. She really does. More than some people
Joel: Well, and we get a hint that I mean, she she tells Rowan, I'm excited about a designee who's gonna use the the family's, you know, power for good. So okay. Great. That's Rowan,
Ashley: Rowan moving forward to start, like, the medical facilities and things that she was I hope we see that. You know, I hope that we see some positive action. And and again, like, we're as we all sit and beg for Rowan to have more agency as a character in this, that's the kind of shit I wanna see.
Joel: Me too. Me too. This is when we get our Julian reference We already discussed that though. I am excited that he he is in this universe. Let's go ahead, Ashley, and skip ahead. I wanna talk about this final scene because I got a feeling we probably both got a lot of things to say. Rowan and Carlotta, as everyone
Ashley: -- Oh.
Joel: -- finally left for the funeral. They're all gone home after the party. And the two of them are alone for dinner.
Ashley: Crazy it, Carl.
Joel: Sends the the help home and then starts this conversation with Rowan where she begins to unburden herself about how much she hated Deidre. I don't I mean, Okay. First things first. I have done quite a bit of smudging in my time. You and I both did smudge or drama?
Joel: And this is very common practice. You you'd like the smudge stick you'd say a little prayer, a little meditation, whatever your higher power or or or central thoughts are, you'd center yourself there and you get ready for a great performance or a great a great safe show. Right? That's that's the hope. You get rid of the bad spirits and bring only positivity to the stage. I've never seen a smudge stick burn that that hard. I think the point is to mostly blow it out where it's just the smoke. Right? Carl, I don't know how to do it.
Ashley: That's the point. But I think her point was to light that bitch on fire. Like, I don't think she had any idiot pictures smudging out any shit. Let that burn Like, it was a molotov. Like, that was no spiritual use of sage. It was a recognized a weaponized prayer if ever I've heard one.
Joel: Oh, man. Not a spiritual use of the sage, strong title contender for this episode. I gotta tell you. Well, I've why didn't Rowan kill this bitch?
Ashley: I mean, I don't know. Why don't we I don't know. I don't know because maybe she's afraid if she does, she's not going to find out the things she wants to know.
Joel: So that's the real question is not the real question is not why Rowan didn't do it. Why didn't the show runners let Rowan kill why did the show runners want Rowan to kill this bitch? But, I mean, this she does in the books. This is one of the deaths I mean, they've already given her deaths as that she doesn't actually commit. The the pharmaceutical guys sort of invented, but the but she kills Carlada. They get together. Carlada reveals, yeah, I'm the one that hid your birth, and and let me tell you why. And Lascher's evil, and you ought to burn this house to the ground. She by the way, Carlotta doesn't burn the house to the ground or attempt to. She tells Rowan she ought to. Yeah. And then and then Rowan when she's going into all of this stuff about you should never have come here and your mother was a waste of time and blah blah blah blah, Rowan blows her head up you know, she she gives her an aneurysm like she's already we've seen her do. I don't understand why they didn't just let her do. I mean, this actress is great. She's fine. Keep the actress around. But you killed Anubeth Gishoff.
Ashley: Yeah. I could see winning another episode two episode or two of Beth Grant, but but yells, the bitch is supposed to die. And we kind of need her to to kind of get things going in Rowan's favor, I feel like. So it's kind of odd that we're that we're stuck here with this this this shocking act that happens at the end of the scene that no one could have seen gumming?
Joel: Yeah. That's another one. Like, And I saw and I saw it coming. As soon as she pulled the blade, I'm like, well, she's not gonna stick that in a rowan. But here comes silk. Breaking into the house in a minute. She's gonna stab Ciprian. Why in the world are they gonna stab Ciprian? And I don't get it. I mean, Again, if if SIPRIAN didn't have his power yet at this point, well, I
Ashley: guess this could
Joel: be a way to subvert the Rowan thing. I mean, the Michael thing. His And now he's got ours, but
Ashley: Yeah. But his life has already been in danger once. They let Rowan save him to already kind of build that relationship. So I
Joel: just I wish Yeah. That's right. I forgot. Yeah. They already tried to kill him watch this season. He already did this
Ashley: fucking watch this season. So I am like, What the hell you guys? Why don't we kill the old bitch and get on with our lives?
Joel: Oh, man. And Lasher locks them in. I don't get that either. What is he doing? You're not gonna kill that? You're not gonna kill that bitch. You might kill the old bitch. Don't kill the new bitch. I don't understand.
Ashley: I don't know what they're doing. No. It's compute it's very confusing. I am oh oh, wait. I just gotta go back to this because I was so this seen. Fucked me up so bad in the last episode. Perlota did have to go back down to the basement and digging that ladies bush to see if the necklace was still there. God. Sorry. I just thought of that. That
Joel: was pretty And that's a no. And it's it's a great point too, though, because again, like, what did Carlada think was gonna happen? She knew what first of all, she heard him banging her skull against the wall. So, like, it was only a matter of work, so she killed until she was dead. But then once Lasher kills this this person, you know he's no longer tied to her. So what did you imagine he was gonna do? He's gonna steal that necklace and go clean it up so that his girl can get it? Like, you know that that's what he's gonna do. I mean, she's not even that surprised when she could stand there. I'm just like, it's a bad plan, Carl. Like, come on. By the way, I loved it when
Ashley: than that.
Joel: I loved it. I loved it when Harry Hamlin calls her Carl when he first comes into the house, uninvited by the way, and then immediately says thanks for the invitation. Sorry, we're late. You know, Carl, there you are. In the book, almost everybody refers to as as uncle Carl and I or or aunt Carl, excuse me. And I had some ants that went by shortened names into the masculine form like that, like, tough old biddies, you know. I have
Ashley: a Oh, yeah. I have a meal. What's the yes. How many meals? So Oh, yeah.
Joel: I've I've got a I've got an ant mitt
Ashley: That's awesome. I mean, I have an
Joel: all big color of my Look at it into the shit. There you go. But it's awesome. So anyway, I I don't I don't understand where this is headed. I did enjoy the trailer for next episode, like, it was an interesting composition. I just I think to myself though, are we gonna do a bottle episode where they're stuck in, like, a bit both SIPRIAN and Rowan or stuck in, you know, a mine palace for for Lascher in the house somehow? Like, is that what they're hitting
Ashley: at? That's what it looks like? Not at don't want one yet. I don't think it's time for a bottle episode of this show yet.
Joel: Yeah. I mean, we've got so much plot. We've got so much plot.
Ashley: Yeah. I mean, you yeah. You you you fucking made your bed lying it. You can't have this isn't a show for a bottle episode. Though I get one And if we Best examples of a bottle episode I've ever seen in this last episode most recent episode of last of us was fucking amazing. Just if FYI, everyone should watch that show, if you're not.
Joel: I have heard so many people say third episode is that's the one you're talking about. Right? It's that good. We we're gonna jump on it this week because of all the praise.
Ashley: You can't wait. You can't wait too good. I mean, you can't wait. It's and I don't think you'd be able to binge it anyway because it's just it's a lot.
Joel: It's deadly. Yeah. It is a lot.
Ashley: It's a show we're talking about. I just think a bottle episode. We're not oh, god. That would be very limiting for the show. And not. I don't think that we did anything to make it better. I think it would only do things to make
Joel: us feel like, shit, they ran out of money. Yes. If we hadn't if we hadn't already been introduced to this dangling witch hunter storyline, if we hadn't already been introduced to this dangling Talomask a conspiracy storyline. You know, we've got the who killed Deidre. We know who physically killed her, but why? Who paid for it? Right? We don't know that. That's out there.
Ashley: Who hired the guy?
Joel: All these things that are extra that are extra book. Right? They're not in the books. These are things invented for the series. You can't afford to spend a whole episode in my mind out of eight with just, you know, three or four characters in in the the house. You know, diving into their character development and in twining them closer together. I don't think you can afford to do that. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope it's great whatever they do. I don't know. All of the trailers have been slightly misleading. You and I talked two weeks ago about how, you know, we expected we were gonna get a download of the Mayfair family history because they were showing us these paintings and talking about the Mayfair, it was like one line, basically. And Joe Vaden didn't even know all their names or or which centuries they all lived in, which I kinda loved. Oh, there is a scene with SiP at Telemasca headquarters and he's got the files out. Our favorite clerk shuffles by. And I guess she smells the files because she's blind.
Ashley: She could smell the Mayfair miles in the air, you guys. I fucking love
Joel: it. She's like walking by. She passes them up and she stops. She goes, Cifrean. Do you have the my fair files out? Yes. And then she asks she asks Dutch or Hastian? Is that what she says? Daturation?
Ashley: Hastian. Daturation. Yeah. Okay. Himalayan. Oh my god. Yeah.
Joel: So I saw nice So I saw some comments in the Facebook group about the the that comment and are they, you know, building like two separate branches of the family. No. This is this is references to two separate parts of history. The Mayfair history in the novels is broken up into one set of files from the Netherlands, from from Dutch, largely from the Pan of Peter von Nobles. That's gonna be like It's the beginning of the story.
Ashley: Deborah, Does Anne Deborah and that's about where it stops.
Joel: And Deborah's and Deborah's daughter, I think he gets all the way. Peter Peter von Nobles does go to
Ashley: yes. That's the Caribbean,
Joel: but only it's right at the very end. That's right. But then you're right. Yeah, you forgot. Now you remember, but but anyway, the Haitian storyline is just the second chapter of the Dutch storyline. So the family starts in Scotland moves to the Netherlands, moves to Haiti, and then moves to New Orleans. You know, that's the flow of the Mayfair family. So here we go. Again, just like the Julian mentioned, all of that exists. That's all real out there somewhere. And I guess we're gonna get it in a spin off. I guess.
Ashley: Oh, I don't
Joel: know. That's fine.
Ashley: Reassuring that we're gonna that it exists. Like, it's not like it's all been retconned. You know? It exists for us we we may get it in some form or fashion, either within this series or in another one. So I think that at least there's that comfort, you know,
Joel: I did have the thought this week that I have had more than a few members of our community suggest to us or me specifically that I should watch the originals, which is the spin off and and sort of sequel slash prequel series to the Vampire Dyeries, which of course is all based on a book series turned into TV shows. The book series predates the Twilight series, but the TV show is very much in response was made in response to the success of Twilight. And so it's it's it's I think got a little bit of that flavor to it. The originals is about older vampires. It's it's largely set before the vampire diary series and is from all accounts a much better series, a much more satisfying find series for vampire fans like us. I thought to myself, maybe that's what happens with the Mayfair witches. Maybe we maybe the first series is fine, a little you know, low key and trike. And the second series, the sequel series is actually like polished and cool.
Ashley: Yeah. I mean, who the hell knows what we're gonna get at this point? It's such a strange thing to be looking at both of these series that interview with with which we were just completely enthralled with. And then our witches were we're just a little confused. Kind of that juxtaposition is just really strange and the fact that we're covering both of them is so funny to me, but I love it and I'm watching it. And I'm not hate watching it yet.
Joel: I don't think I'm I don't think we're gonna get to hate watching, honestly. I think I think it's gonna be alright. It's just not it's just not an interview, and that's what we've gotta own up to. Yeah. I don't I don't think we're gonna get to hate watching. I think this is gonna be fine. I just you you have to calibrate because, honestly, interview with the vampire was like, not just a a good adaptation of, you know, a source material that you and I both are so passionate about, but it was also just genuinely good compelling premium television, which is even in this day and age where we get so much TV, good premium television is still rare. It's still noticeable. You know, you talked to your friends about the last of us. You talked to your friends about Andor last year, you know, was another series on I didn't grow up, you know, loving Cassie and Andor and emulating him like I did last night. And yet, that series was just amazing. I told everybody that's remotely interested in Star Wars or Science fiction about it. That's what happens when you cross the Really good art. And so you just have to calibrate, there's there's great art, and then there's really decent programming. And that's what this is. It's very decent programming, you know?
Ashley: Yeah. And there's I mean, there's nothing like, we don't know where it's going or we only know where we've been so far. And I think that, you know, we still have, what, we're about halfway there. We've got four episodes left. I think that there's, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of time left for them to for them to get us where they want us to be. I think we'd probably all feel a little bit stronger about things maybe we had any sort of idea road map wise. Where we're gonna end up. But, like, right now, I'm so fucking confused. I have no idea what's gonna happen next. And that's kinda cool too. You know, it's like it just kinda puts us back in that in that, you know, in that seat of being a reader that still doesn't quite know what's happening. It's like I read it while I was like, dicks beers in or something.
Joel: There you go. There you go. Maybe that's the way we need to watch this show. We just all need to drink a little more before we turn on the tube.
Ashley: Was that Ashley h said that she was had a medium margarita at lunch with her sister. Now she was gonna watch this fourth episode of May Fears in the hopes that the tequila will make it make sense. I was one of our one of our buddies in our Facebook group, and I I laughed so hard when I read that. I was like, maybe that would help.
Joel: The Jose Cuervo, take the wheel. Yes. Alright. In between here and next week. Enjoy yourself. Watch episode five of the Mayfair Witches and rejoin us. Check out the last of us if you have it, and you've got access to HP
Ashley: on Azure.
Joel: You've heard Ashley's recommendation. I'll throw in my own pop culture recommendation. So we I haven't finished it yet. I'm an old person. My wife is an old person, and we got about an hour deep and paused it last night to finish tonight. But we did start watching Meghan. Muthregan is how I've been pronouncing it the killer robot movie. It it's really, really good. And you know what you know what's also interesting. I I mentioned yesterday, you've got it's such a compelling moment, I think, and pop culture, if you're at all a horror fan or you like genre material, you've got kind of like the the base you know, what call it what you want to popcorn, you know, filler, fluff, fair, whatever. The the just for fun stuff, like Meghan, I would say, very much like that coming from Bloom House. You've got just a ton of great core low, you know, low budget and kinda high concept often, but quick and dirty horror movies from from Bloom House. Then you've also got these incredibly high end art house pieces from a twenty four on a fairly regular basis. If you referenced mid summer earlier, I I was thinking about the witch so much with this series, obviously. And Spalding even mentioned they're very much referencing Eggers, the witch, and their Suzanne storylines. Anyway, what a time to be alive that you consistently get a rhythm of releases of, like, really interesting original content from both those houses in particular. You you know, just from interesting visionary directors like Eggers for instance.
Ashley: It's so much fun. It's such a I I said it all the time, like, it's such a great time to be a nerd in this world. Like, with all of the Star Wars and with the Marvel and with all of the great, like, content like that, we're getting lots of us and But as a horror movie fan, which I have been since way before I should have been a horror movie fan, it's such a fun time to be a movie fan. There's just such great movies coming out. There's great you know, and like you said, it's such a great variety. You know, we've got a brand new green movie coming out this year, and I'm a huge fan of that of that series. And it's just it's, you know, the closing at Halloween last year. It's just been a really fun time to kind of sit back and enjoy some really creepy, gory, funny, scary stories.
Joel: Absolutely. Absolutely. And referencing Meghan specifically, I I mean, if you look at the timelines for production, it's basically impossible that they copied her look in any way from L'Estat and his his costuming. But, boy, there are some moments
Ashley: where you get mezzanine
Joel: alone in a frame. And you're like, they just they made a little list at all for this show.
Ashley: That's awesome. I can't wait to watch it. My brother said he loved it. So
Joel: It is it's very enjoyable and a really interesting performance. Let me praise here specifically, Alison Williams. It plays sort of like the the mom figure in this. She's not actually the mom. She's the aunt, but She she's the the robotics expert that is Meghan's creator and is the little girls guardian that, you know, the movie is centered around. And It's super interesting. Her performance is very against type. I would say for what I've seen Alison Williams do before. It's not like she's been in a million things, but I've seen her a lot. And this is very much against all of those roles. It almost didn't recognize her. She is playing so so different to me anyway. And I thought to myself Well, it it at first, I was sort of confused by it. And I was like, why aren't she doing this? But then I realized I was just like, I think it's I think it's a really interesting choice to mirror the story line here. We've got a, you know, a killer robot, and it's like, well, who would create a killer robot? I think honestly, Alison not that Alison is an evil character in any way. Her character is not. But it it's interesting when you break that character down, you're like, oh, this is the kind of person who could stumble backwards into this sort of creation,
Ashley: you know. Right. Right.
Joel: So anyway, very interesting movie. And again It's cool. I'm stuck in the second half. Pretty
Ashley: underwhelmed by her. I'm usually pretty underwhelmed by her. So glad to hear that it's good. She's good in particular.
Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm really enjoying it. We're gonna finish that up tonight, and I'll let you know. But folks, go check that stuff out. Check out episode five of Mayfair Witches and rejoin us next week. Don't forget to check out the conversations going on all all week long in the Facebook group and Discord. And until we talk to you again, we've been your hosts. I'm Joel.
Ashley: I'm Ashley.
Joel: And we are the articulate coven. Thanks for listening to the Articulate Coveen. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes. Or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, or at articulate coveben dot com, and share us with your An Rice loving friends.